<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Steve,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A linguist I knew who had written on this as a core theme was Bill Wong, then at the City University of Hong Kong (where I hoped to visit, but sadly never did), and apparently more findable as an emeritus at Berkely than at either of the Hong Kongs (City or Chinese, where I think he went for a time):</div><div class=""><a href="https://lx.berkeley.edu/william-s-y-wang" class="">https://lx.berkeley.edu/william-s-y-wang</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Bill was interested in the way ideographic writing allowed a much more rapid progression of homophony, as one now finds in standard Mandarin, which is much more reduced than Cantonese in terms of tones and (to a lesser degree) vowels, though not as reduced as modern Cantonese in terms of fricatives. Bill used to claim that if one watches carefully around Beijing, one can see in complicated conversations, people having to sketch characters in the air to make non-obvious distinctions in which word is meant. Steve G has lived and worked there and understood what was going on around him, and can perhaps comment on this.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I remember a draft manuscript Bill gave me to read maybe 18 years ago now, about how ideographic writing has particular strengths that are lost with a transition to alphabets or syllabaries. Also, I am told there is a tradition of magic-square-poetry in Chinese, where something like a tic-tac-toe array of characters is supposed to be readable as a meaningful expression along each column and maybe rows or diagonals. I think that came from Jay Garfield at Smith college, not from Bill, but I am not very sure of that sourcing. I expect that, if one had time and inclination, a reading tree starting with Bill's review articles would lead rapidly to harder stuff.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It has also always made me wonder about the thinking behind the simplified characters. In a careful study, did inserting random strokes in place of meaningful radicals really increase the rates of language learning? If so, it surprises me and says something either about the nature of learning written languages, or at least about the way they were being taught.</div><div class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>I thought katakana arose as fragmentary writing by noble-family women relatively late, and I recall having read more but not remembering it. How it got adopted as the standard form for foreign expressions and some more minor usages is surely something one can find in standard language books, but I have not read. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>The other syllabary, hiragana, is probably inescapable when you have characters for lexical roots borrowed into a language with agglutinating syntax, which Chinese does not have. It doesn’t help, either, that there were multiple waves of Chinese influence, at different times and from different groups on the mainland, in Japan over many hundreds of years. So add to the 2 or 3 indigenous pronunciations from groups that clearly stayed close to home, the 3 or 4 or 5 borrowed forms from China, and it is a wonder anyone ever knows which pronunciation for anything should be used. I always find it interesting when we get student applications for things, and the (very traditional and classically educated) chair of the selection committee circulates the applications, with an apology that he doesn’t know how the first names should be pronounced if there are not hiragana traces to indicate. Having markers to indicate nominal or verbal forms as well as case or aspect should lessen the cognitive load while reading, of having to go a few characters downstream to back-parse what role the earlier characters were taking in the sentence. Probably for some things like case or aspect, they couldn’t be disambiguated at all without the hiragana. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>I wish I were good enough at my day job to have the time or actually put in the effort to be a Japanophile, or anything else that would be interesting to really understand.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Best,</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Eric</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 13, 2020, at 11:31 AM, Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" class="">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">We obviously have at least two Japanophiles here...<br class=""></p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">My (very limited) familiarity with Chinese Logographic written language and the inherited/derived Japanese Kanji I was struck by how intrinsic the metaphorical nature of Ideograms are. Pictograms are more "visually onomatapoeic" which is (more than) a nod to the perceptual grounding of language. It seems that Logographic writing mixes Pictographic, Ideographic and even Rebus (phonetic loan words) as-needed, with what seems like a natural drift toward phonographic language/syllabaries (e.g. Katakana). Of course, having metaphor-derangement-syndrome, I find metaphor everywhere and even more to the point of my own idiosyncratic perspective, the stacking or composition of metaphors evidenced in ideogrammatic compounds and the broad use of radicals to combine/modify/nuance ideograms.</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">I'd be curious if either of you (anyone really) has more insight into the way these written languages maintain the vestiges of their own evolution/development and hints for how people who use these languages might structure their thought similarly or differently to those who use entirely phonographic writing (all of the modern West?)</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">- Steve<br class=""></p><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">On 10/13/20 8:42 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:d545c3b2-fab9-4972-a1a5-bbe60c8c946d@www.fastmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Carl,<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Mentioning art and translation made me think of this book<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><i class=""><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=P14rAH8xU9EC&printsec=frontcover" moz-do-not-send="true">The Chinese Written Character as a Medium for Poetry</a></i>, composed by the Ernest Fenollosa, edited by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound" title="Ezra Pound" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Ezra Pound</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>after the author's death, 1918.<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">I frequently refer to it when confronting issues of cognition and language and culture; and as insight into why Whorf was right and why he was wrong.<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">You might enjoy it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">davew<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Carl Tollander wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Dave,<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks, not there yet. Somewhere between Zen and Shinto, anyhows. <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The test is a mirror, in the sense that it proposed a lot of photons in short order that I would not normally consider, which brought some opportunity for self-reflection. A bunch of "gee, that's odd" moments.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sort of like studying Japanese grammar might give some insights about the English language and the nature of translation. One of the works that disabused me of western notions of Japanese "traditional" arts was Edith Grossman's "Why Translation Matters". (note -- she doesn't talk about Japan at all) Respect as engagement rather than obeisance. <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">C<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:02 PM Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">Carl is very Japanese and master of Drum Zen.<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class="">davew<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt-gmail-m_4602590993636776526qt" class=""><p class="">Carl -<br class=""></p><div class="">Acknowledged. The foreground/background thing is always tricky. I don't mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal freedoms", even though such are in some sense an illusion. Perhaps someone can articulate this better than I have?<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Steve<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Steve,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms". Perhaps that is unwarranted. I just see no reason to be an ass.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: medium none currentcolor; padding: 0px;" class=""><div class="">>>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; padding-left: 1ex;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Carl Tollander wrote:<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">-9,-8.1<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.<br class=""></div><div class="">Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><p class="">I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for themselves. My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is they seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will* on others under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* . When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and appeal of competition?) I was more seduced by some of that. Now it just makes me feel systemically ill.<br class=""></p><p class="">I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.<br class=""></p><p class="">- Steve<br class=""></p><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; padding-left: 1ex;" class=""><div lang="EN-US" class=""><div class=""><p class="">There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships. I don’t think this inclination is overtly authoritarian. However, a strong desire to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for them, and that brings in (say) the church. When a social network is more important than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen. Wired has an article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a skim. <br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div style="border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class=""><br class=""></p><div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Eric Smith<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest<br class=""></div><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><p class="">So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.<br class=""></p><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">Is that due to demographic sorting? In more prosperous (or even just earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”. But when those who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences that had caused them to stay behind?<br class=""></p><div class=""><p class=""><br class=""></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><p class=""><br class=""></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><p class="">On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">rec@elf.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/</a><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">-- rec --<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote style="border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, 204); border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other strange things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian. If that is true, which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the electorate in a very obscure way. And I am pretty sure I am not far to the left of Bernie Sanders. <br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div style="border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class=""><br class=""></p><div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stephen Guerin<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest<br class=""></div><p class=""><br class=""></p></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="">ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3<br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div></div></div></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote style="border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, 204); border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is? Something MUST be wrong, here.<br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="">Nicholas Thompson<br class=""></p><p class="">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br class=""></p><p class="">Clark University<br class=""></p><p class=""><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br class=""></p><p class=""><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div style="border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class=""><br class=""></p><div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Prof David West<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam@redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest<br class=""></div><p class=""><br class=""></p></div></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Econ left/right: -0.88</span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Social Lib/Auth: -6.1</span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">davew</span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">NOT a Libertarian</span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote id="qt-gmail-m_4602590993636776526qt-gmail-m_-6791402764200805358gmail-m_7765795420829808861gmail-m_-8682206521367141913m_-6349746993548423742qt" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><p class="">Do we all agree at an insanely high level? Then wtf have we been arguing about all these years. Let’s wait until Glen and Dave take the test before we bury all our hatchets.<br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><p class="">n<br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><p class="">Nicholas Thompson<br class=""></p><p class="">Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<br class=""></p><p class="">Clark University<br class=""></p><p class=""><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br class=""></p><p class=""><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div style="border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div class=""><p class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Gary Schiltz<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">friam@redfish.com</a>><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest<br class=""></p></div></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><p class="">I was pretty much dead center in the lower left quadrant, which was surprising to me. I would have thought I would be in the middle of the whole graph.<br class=""></p></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan <<a href="mailto:gtduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">gtduncan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote style="border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, 204); border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 18pt;">Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on economics and strongly libertarian on social issues</span></span></span></span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 18pt;"> </span></span></span></span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">George Duncan<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">georgeduncanart.com</a><br class=""></p></div></div><div class=""><p class="">See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">Land: (505) 983-6895 <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">Mobile: (505) 469-4671<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and luminous chaos.<br class=""></p></div></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;" class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;">"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then be a valuable delusion."</span></span></span></span></span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><p class=""><span class=""><span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;" class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 12pt;">From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn. </span></span></span></span></span></span><br class=""></p></div><table width="85%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="width: 457.28125px; border-collapse: collapse;" class=""><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td style="padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><p align="center" style="margin-bottom: 9pt; text-align: center;" class=""><span class=""><span style="color: rgb(93, 86, 81);" class=""><span class=""><span class="font" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class=""><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;">"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." Joanna Macy.</span></span></span></span></span></span><br class=""></p></td></tr><tr class=""><td valign="top" style="padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><br class=""></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=""><span style="color: white;" class=""> </span><br class=""></p></div><p class=""> <br class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 3:22 PM jon zingale <<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></p></div><blockquote style="border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, 204); border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class=""><div class=""><p class="">I just took the political compass test and surprise surprise, I am a<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">left-libertarian.<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class="">Take the test here if you are interested:<br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.politicalcompass.org/test</a><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""><<a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png</a>><br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""></p></div><div 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class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><pre class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriamun%2fsubscribe&c=E,1,7IE9yQTC0cvBo5DKesP2tIQ_MU6qICsMUciDwyJiVj535YrbRu7uYH-8PpvIVBpOBlIlyZk_y4Nj9kzhnewoIhpuSoaxpAPpHO3_3v0Bl1-bD11nv2MfQSIQzoY,&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam
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FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,jKMZykk6LRoCc8Rlmvlb3r1o9E5BXAY3WKrZqcb4GKROd8biTki6HOX3SXhDccUFlPKBwz7tDt5EuP6K-_zRldAYTmMrTv3Hmy26NQLrtFc,&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
</pre></blockquote></div><div class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,sWEc57X0yliCfeyjAawvfzibEtIbsv6lR7-YK9gd8fsHG-VHsNpcXaSHeMdmGGveSCSvT8937U3FdF0JpqfWneQD52bR6ZgssLsmlsUckWlGFD1kBphT&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br class=""></div><div class="">un/subscribe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,NlpyphITCfdAxjynk5qp5Lb1lTjDUGyYuXdXbE-gmPn4CNBocDwV9HPT9nzzSS2vzMMzsV8ApDs5TLZaauWJSjO7DBWZ4Hfn5bBcbndZYAWKcw,,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">archives:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,-j5DcUyEIm43b2Ng2LRSE6YPgY4OWcv2KBYpjXzn_D12hBwNg6ChldrMPrxBD8xJfB4LtUB7ivnnORaWU-QjE412tIoMPKP4GUpeeymkmg,,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><pre class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriamun%2fsubscribe&c=E,1,DUTGmPf4G6Hx025Kaeapn6nv02OMEnI_4WljMy-qpaQg0fexcfAHbnzeRmXhhwADBkWJYUdfnjVmLhPSw0RPJZ7f6OKORlrZnjpQUigi&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam
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FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,QhKK0WtUsLCZuRBOeR1BtEdJZZzASzPeWCNZktcvTodyb4IvAT8XzXOQjPSOPj2TbN_CBUkUTwIL8xEGa79Wv-Gdl-NHbyLQxIxqSbTumsRGvZz0oMo,&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
</pre></blockquote><div class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,4YLlABLHCResjoFJCZb5-GqMRc9-psgup-X7u0Je4br4Vk5T-hPvBbNaBLVSUMsQPV0G2eaxICNSTYMxGTgLH28xs5V1aEXTf4RC5C-3Qz7x_Rdr&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br class=""></div><div class="">un/subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,I92Ijfrhly3hlk__rw-mTk9SqV9QSvfAukxzbFJNN1vHDQZNRF2MaiGoel2ysyAZ_SE08chV0rM1F1Fijqj-5UagLHO2w4QcneCWHnHu&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,MysaKOk5xTybR8n6FUnVA6UjXJEz7Tt_1WUV7YO2dvlOUgYfY4RSyZPaGy2DYJwCcnVH4VNfBvejtWfbSi0iArMcRAJyw5MPPUlikQaN57ozDjFBZkV6PUMUCwYT&typo=1" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,mOmctbiv9k1AKLRiLD8F00zveqtayhCVpobGctAZAbxTt0qluwhD0apBKr80kmW8430Cq0r9kmDlLxOX7n2hXo3FohSEtLtv8yC_fLxuTg_kQaP_yUcrwg,,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br class=""></div><div class="">un/subscribe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,5y1RXnnsUyVPLqb9y1eO1NGOwANJizIzv63M3Ytdb5aF9vMX6nV4k3VmQWf2t1OmhdqlGSy3PdCaGbRyBu3xMeIfjHwJCsKoN0w8w8qt&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">archives:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM-COMIC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xN68KCu_NeFqoJdChbMClfThd_EqUyVmswg_iUEthtswGx23p5gSUNx4m3KHYHa4HrqqvU2H3ORfwqvDUN3GHndbn2udoY--U6Wo3qq-zVcVhbw,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class=""></div><div class="">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,cFImXA0gcKcRg3nsEMgG5WjOiCD9_kiH026aE3SJ0Mbf2OJ1mOdReqVVb7XSFWOuB13CjidE7y6OCvete6qHvv8cq8YofbOhQougYSq6YVA82vbT5w,,&typo=1" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br class=""></div><div class="">un/subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,iEWvaprCeBBqItdBVPIc7REhUZvfy5rsSBOcBMcTYJ2Q4KNuD29B3ybjG4aicM53TLjDLJLAXnN8QA6JFVDQeNkpRMFYmMcLEemytrYO-9mtXQc,&typo=1" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,BHzbvEGQQyLNpPkKuz28cpVxWNu9gCqJLhnRIHObpLHWetCvgMIlJfxbtuALhgj-AiOdoyStK08qENzrHe3C0sYISF-PedxsPVYpzLGo941JW3g,&typo=1" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a>
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</pre></blockquote><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; 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