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< <font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">Outsiderness is an affectation, nothing more.</span></font> ></div>
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Yes, we should focus on the content of the RWW belief system and its consequences and do what is possible to delete or attenuate it on that basis.</div>
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Marcus<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West <profwest@fastmail.fm><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 2, 2020 10:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] wackos</font>
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<div class="PlainText">Outsiderness is an affectation, nothing more.<br>
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On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, at 9:20 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:<br>
> The "in our lives" part *should* have given my meaning. Obviously it <br>
> did not. Whatever.<br>
> <br>
> But one who hooks their identity to their outsider-ness, then complains <br>
> about non-outsiders may not be *technically* guilty of ethnocentrism. <br>
> But that smacks of sophistry. All we need do is look at the "Revenge of <br>
> the Nerds" series and the rise of the modern "nerd culture" to see <br>
> that. You are only as outsider as you *choose* to be. We can choose not <br>
> to listen to those around us. Not to see them as fellow outsiders. Or <br>
> we can *pretend* that we're the select elite with special feelings of <br>
> outsider-ness ... persecution complex?<br>
> <br>
> The reality is we all feel that way *most* of the time. This is the <br>
> primary insight from social media. All we see in posts from <br>
> "influencers" are the views from their "good side" ... sucking in their <br>
> bellies on the beach in Belize ... adhering to their fad diet ... <br>
> smiling ... What we DON'T see is selfies of them after downing a whole <br>
> bag of cookies because their life is totally empty and they're about to <br>
> commit suicide.<br>
> <br>
> We all *feel* like outsiders. That's part of the modern condition. And <br>
> it's very sad that many of us lack the empathy to see through the <br>
> mirage.<br>
> <br>
> As to the wak culture I feel most comfortable in, that's the metal <br>
> [sub]culture. Our flags and common dress are well known, tend toward <br>
> earthy colors, particularly black. Satanic imagery. Particular ways of <br>
> dancing. Tests of "street cred" by mentioning obscure artists, <br>
> festivals, events, or styles (like downtuning). Etc. That this culture <br>
> is *viewed* as wacko was evidenced by the "Satanic Panic" of the '80s <br>
> and '90s and continues today in some ways. We've clawed our way to <br>
> respectability over time as a sibling to other geek/outsider <br>
> [sub]cultures. As for my own outsider-ness, I still don't fit that <br>
> well, even there. One fellow member gave me the "side eye" when I told <br>
> him I had switched from math rock and industrial to psytrance as my <br>
> background music for programming grooves.<br>
> <br>
> On 12/2/20 7:08 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br>
> > My original cite:<br>
> > <br>
> > /"what many of us purport to *want* ... common ground with which to have a discussion with the right wing wackos in our lives."/<br>
> > <br>
> > I took /"the right wing wackos in our lives"/ as a reference to a subset of the body of Trump supporters, and more specifically the 74 million who voted for him, that we happen to be in contact with. I think that is consistent with comments in various
threads about talking with / trying to understand Trumpists. Nick's and Marcus' responses in this thread would seem to affirm my reading of the referent. In that case, I stand by my remarks.<br>
> > <br>
> > It is quite possible that I was wrong. Your comments suggest that I was. Perhaps you literally meant to reference a group "Wackos," a subset of whom are "right wing" (without any implication that "right wing" within the wacko group have any correlation
with right wing in a US political context), and the subset of them who are in our lives.<br>
> > <br>
> > If this is the case, then nothing I said pertains to Wackos or the Wacko culture. You would certainly be correct in asserting that I do not understand that culture, as I am unaware of the group, qua group, itself.<br>
> > <br>
> > However, I am the consummate outsider, identifying with no group nor culture and therefore can be guilty of egocentricsm, but never ethnocentrism.<br>
> > <br>
> > An ethnography of the Wacko culture would be an interesting project. As a self-professed, flag possessing, member of that culture, could you provide some pointers to the commonly accepted hallmarks of a culture: shared world view, shared language, shared
values, shared customs/behaviors, shared modes of dress, definitions of kinship (blood or virtual), shared technology, etc.?<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ<br>
> <br>
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