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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>No, I still disagree. IFF thinking holistically is the only way to think rightly, THEN thinking holistically is the only logical way to think. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But we are about to be bickering over definitions, rather than clarifying meanings. So long as you know that there is normative dimension in how I understand “logic”, and I know that for you, there isn’t, that in your usage there is truth-seeking argument that is not logical, then we probably will bore other people if we go on arguing. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But I love you like a brother,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Merle Lefkoff<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 14, 2021 12:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Merle, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Merle Lefkoff<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Thanks, Glen,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588quotation>Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of u?l? ???<br>Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM<br>To: FriAM <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext><a href="https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>--<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>↙↙↙ uǝlƃ<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m-5552372912591917884gmail-m-5816066354038635588msoplaintext>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br>Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br><a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>mobile: (303) 859-5609<br>skype: merle.lelfkoff2<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>twitter: @merle110<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br>Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br><a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>mobile: (303) 859-5609<br>skype: merle.lelfkoff2<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>twitter: @merle110<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>