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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Merle, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So. Lets make it lively. Lets consider it. Pronouns are used for threading, and to give up this function for identity (or ideology) declaration seems too much price to pay. I understand that this is exactly the kind of Old White Guy (e.g., E. B. White) objection that “intersectional” would deplore. And I was raised on Charlotte’s Web. So, the objection is suspect. But it’s not irrelevant. I can see that in time we will end up in a situation in which we just have to keep repeating names to keep our speech threaded. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>N<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Merle Lefkoff<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Talent and Moral Luck - Steelman attempt<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Maybe I missed this earlier, but this thread might be more lively if it considers the latest gender conversation: the fluidity of gender as a form of cultural identity. I have to practice constantly referring to several of my granddaughter's friends as "they", not "she" or "he" or "her" or "him." <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:18 AM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Steve, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Well, when good threads are bent, you and I will bend them. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Let me complete my thought: There are two kinds of feminism here, right? [Merle, please be kind.] One claims that women are not different, and therefore should be treated equally. The other claims that women are or may be different but that males’ and females’ natures are to be valued equally. I have always leaned toward this sort of feminism. But I see now that, insofar as it captures every woman I meet in a stereotype, this sort of feminism is itself sexist. Every time I meet a woman, I engage in the following abductive-deductive logic: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> This person is wearing a skirt (say) and has long hair (say). <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> This person is probably a woman.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> Women are less likely to be aggressive A-holes than men,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> Therefore, I (probably) can relax around this person. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>There is no escaping the sexism of this logic. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I listen every week to a podcast, <i>Strict Scrutiny, </i>which begins with the aphorism:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m3674423107193613133quotation>I ask no special favor for my sex; I ask only that you take your feet off our necks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I was raised near the end of a rural road during WWII. My only chum, from about 1 year to adolescence was a girl. After the War, my parents moved to Boston. Before we were separated, we had a long chat about gender, she and I, and agreed, sadly, that I was <i>lucky</i> to be a guy. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nick <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nicholas Thompson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Clark University<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 14, 2021 10:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Talent and Moral Luck - Steelman attempt<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>nst> Sorry. You missed my point. It was—YPTE—introspective. I was noticing that I could not believe that a world without women was dreary without being a sexist. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>nst> Probably not that interesting a thought if one is under 50, or 60, or 70, or perhaps even 80 <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>and I submit to all that the main point of the storyline is the sorry/not-sorry (unintended/unexpected/yet-predictable) consequences of using violence (one of the most egregious types of levers). <o:p></o:p></p><p>The "dreariness" of a world without women would seem to be eclipsed by the personal grief of *virtually* every male on the planet losing his wife/mother/daughters/sisters/female-friends overnight (in the personal) and the abrupt if delayed (by a remaining lifespan) existential grief of the end of a spectacular (if clearly flawed, as demonstrated by the central theme) species. Maybe a (very few?) fully psychotic misogynists found it a pleasing condition (in which case I "blame the Mother" ;^) )<o:p></o:p></p><p>Unlike most post-apocalyptic storytelling, the misery is not (overtly) miserable health crises (nuclear holocaust) or marauding bands (though they did feature) or competition for exhausting resources, or retreating from an angry/disappointed "mother earth", but rather a simple but profound "absence" and incontrovertable "end of humanity", leaving the men of the world to contemplate (or not) how they treated women before they all went away.<o:p></o:p></p><p><blatant Moralizing><o:p></o:p></p><p> If Marcus' nihilist view that "it is all levers" is more true than not, it explains why this grand experiment of "civilization" seems to be collapsing into a cesspool of it's own making, under it's own weight. Or it's own hubris. Or under the self-perpetuating seduction of vengeance and retribution: (don't click if you hate poetry) <a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48485/the-people-of-the-other-village" target="_blank">The People of the Other Village - Thomas Lux </a><o:p></o:p></p><p>My parents taught me (mostly by example) that punishment of children was at best a necessary last resort, resulting from and reflecting upon a failure of good parenting leading up to the need for acute correction. They were at least a *little* more direct/vocal about the same principle in public life, that our criminal justice system *only* existed, with it's myriad attempts at exacting justice without revenge and finding clever forms of "punitive retribution" to at least appear like "natural consequences" (not a term in parenting vocabulary at that time quite yet, but practiced by my parents and a few others I knew). <o:p></o:p></p><p>Our current "Lord of the Flies" scene in DC (and across the country) may require all kinds of exacted punishment to re-align elements of society to where we can live together in relative peace, but to not acknowledge that the mere entertainment of the likes of Donald Trump as a national leader represents an abject failure of our culture to "make sense". The calls for removal/impeachment/censure/disbarment are all reasonable triage actions to minimize continued damage, even if they are in many ways "too little too late". But I am saddened as I hear a great deal of the rhetoric on the topic armatured around *retribution* and *vengeance*...<o:p></o:p></p><p>Self-Righteously yours, <o:p></o:p></p><p>- Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br>Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br><a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>mobile: (303) 859-5609<br>skype: merle.lelfkoff2<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>twitter: @merle110<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>