<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Nick, I think you should fine the perspective advanced here very congenial.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://opendocs.github.io/sicp/sicp.pdf" class="">https://opendocs.github.io/sicp/sicp.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I know the people who code for a living will sigh and say “how quaint, what the guy who doesn’t know anything about this work thinks is our literature”. Granted. My younger colleagues, whose work I have forwarded to this list, have never read it and many have never heard of it. Yet for (I think) well more than a decade, it was a core standard at MIT.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As an outsider who knows nothing, I find it a terrific introduction, and do not yet understand why anyone would recommend _against_ taking at least a little time to read within it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Eric</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 27, 2021, at 12:56 PM, <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">This flies in the face of my belief that you coders know something about life that we citizens need to know. I imagine coding to be like trying to write an instruction to a person such that that person always does what you want them to do. So, it is an act of communication in which the communicatee is always right, no matter how idiotic may be it’s response. No boss ever says to a coder, “Your code was brilliant but unfortunately the machine didn’t understand you.” <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Am I right about any of that?<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Nick Thompson<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,kv82v2yL8r5CGmB5BAQaLVxej2ui8eapdbb1d7UumyfRpbBQ2nULD7JCl18N64cpdGnc9uMxoPxf9DBSsxuL-xoGNdbJpsUURVjSCO-B31ShbYdu8st2-cYi&typo=1" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Prof David West<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, January 27, 2021 11:41 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" class="">friam@redfish.com</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[FRIAM] coding versus music<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">For a while now there has been a huge push to teach kids how to code. Ostensibly because it enhances skills like language, logic, and math; plus, "computer literacy" is essential in a world filled with computers.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">A study at MIT suggests that coding skill is orthogonal to reading skill and has little, if any, influence on development of logic/math skills.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">An article in the Journal of Neuroscience argues that if you want to increase the "skills and brainpower" of kids you should teach them music.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I came across this information peripherally and have not read the specific research reported on. I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><u class="">want</u></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>the reports to be accurate representation of the research because it confirms long held biases against the value of "computational thinking" and computer science as a fundamental knowledge domain.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">dave west<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; 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