<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Back in the 80s Hans Moravec, author of "Mind Children: The Future of AI", and I used to argue constantly about the nature of consciousness. I forwarded Russ' post to him after decades without our communicating. Here is his reply in its entirety.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">"<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Hi Frank,</span><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto"><br></div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto">Surely the position that emotions arise in the cortex is a straw man, I don't</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto">know anyone who argues that. Reasoning rationalizes the drives, doesn't</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto">cause them.</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto">That doesn't mean a reasoning AI can't someday simulate emotions, like</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto">an actor or author. </div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto"><br></div><div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto">Hans</div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px" dir="auto"><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">We worked in the Robotics Institute. Neither of us wastes words apparently.</div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto"><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Frank</div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto"><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto"><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, 6:17 PM Russ Abbott <<a href="mailto:russ.abbott@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">russ.abbott@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">About to be published.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">From a <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/05/the-hidden-spring-by-mark-solms-review-the-riddle-of-consciousness-solved" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">review</a> by Oliver Burkeman:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(18,18,18);font-family:GuardianTextEgyptian,"Guardian Text Egyptian Web",Georgia,serif;font-size:18.0625px;font-variant-ligatures:common-ligatures">Burkeman: Using poignant case studies of neurology patients – including children born with brain damage, yet plainly still capable of sadness and joy – [Solms] argues persuasively that consciousness ultimately arises not in the cortex, the seat of advanced intelligence, but in the more primitive brainstem, where basic emotions begin.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(18,18,18);font-family:GuardianTextEgyptian,"Guardian Text Egyptian Web",Georgia,serif;font-size:18.0625px;font-variant-ligatures:common-ligatures"><br></span></div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Russ: </span>In other words, consciousness <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">exists </span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">far </span>down the tree of life.<div><br><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(18,18,18);font-family:GuardianTextEgyptian,"Guardian Text Egyptian Web",Georgia,serif;font-size:18.0625px;font-variant-ligatures:common-ligatures">Burkeman: To the best of my understanding, the gist [of the book] is that feelings are a uniquely effective and efficient way for humans to monitor their countless changing biological needs, in extremely unpredictable environments, to set priorities for action and make the best choices so as to remain within various bounds – of hunger, cold and heat, physical danger, social isolation, etc – outside of which we can’t survive for long. Doing all that without feelings, and doing it as rapidly as survival requires, would take so many computational resources that it would lead to a “combinatorial explosion”, demanding levels of energy a human could never muster.</span> <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Here's Nick Lane's <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Spring-Journey-Source-Consciousness/dp/0393542017/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">blurb on Amazon</a>: (If you know Nick Lane, you know he is worth listening to.)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(15,17,17);font-family:"Amazon Ember",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">"At last the emperor has found some clothes! For decades, consciousness has been perceived as an epiphenomenon, little more than an illusion that can't really make things happen. Solms takes a thrilling new approach to the problem, grounded in modern neurobiology but finding meaning in older ideas going back to Freud. This is an exciting book."</span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(15,17,17);font-family:"Amazon Ember",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style="color:rgb(15,17,17);font-family:"Amazon Ember",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">― </span><span style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700;color:rgb(15,17,17);font-family:"Amazon Ember",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Nick Lane, author of <em style="box-sizing:border-box">The Vital Question</em></span> <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font><u style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16.5px;line-height:20px"><br></u></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font><u style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16.5px;line-height:20px"> </u></font><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16.5px;line-height:24.75px"> </span>-- Russ Abbott <br>Professor, Computer Science<br>California State University, Los Angeles<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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