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    <p>I live on Bundy Lane (100 meters long, with three other
      households) off of NM 502 and when I give directions to the house
      I describe it as "Bundy Lane as in Al or Ted" but have had to add
      "or Ammon and Cliven"  to be more current.   In another decade I
      hope none of those references mean anything.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Yes, there is an element of "chumming" among all the "spinning"
      and "churning".   I also liked Glen's usage of "spinning" with
      "Wing Nuts"  a while back... if Doug were still with us, he'd
      probably throw in some off-color reference to "Spinners" as well. 
      The boon/bane of metaphor I suppose.  <br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/10/21 4:41 PM, Roger Critchlow
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGayqovOXyU91S36hf=2nMdZDxZ0HkAqfSKOvtyqMRJThGZT-Q@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Or chumming, as in throwing bloody fish in the
        water to attract sharks.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I read BLM protests on first scan as a reference to the
          Bundy stand-off, per Wikipedia:</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">The
            2014 </span><b
            style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Bundy
            standoff</b><span
            style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> was
            an armed confrontation between supporters of cattle rancher </span><a
            href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy"
            title="Cliven Bundy"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Cliven Bundy</a><span
            style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> and
            law enforcement following a 21-year legal dispute in which
            the </span><a
            href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management"
            title="Bureau of Land Management"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"
            moz-do-not-send="true">United States Bureau of Land
            Management</a><span
            style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> (BLM)
            obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million
            in withheld </span><a
            href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing_fees#United_States"
            class="gmail-mw-redirect" title="Grazing fees"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"
            moz-do-not-send="true">grazing fees</a><span
            style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> for
            Bundy's use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy's
            ranch in southeastern </span><a
            href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada" title="Nevada"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Nevada</a><span
            style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">.</span></blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Just another note on the hazards of acronyms.  Especially
          with erratic memories involved.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>-- rec --</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:28
          PM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <p>Not speaking for Nick, *I* think politics (vs
              statesmanship) are at the very *least* _rhetorical_.   I
              believe rhetoric often includes direct deceit.  A great
              deal of politics in the US today (maybe forever) is
              acutely deceitful, even when it isn't attack-oriented. 
              One party is significantly more bold than the other in
              that regard.  DaveW may invert the sense of that
              judgement, but probably agrees that deceptive rhetoric is
              a mainstay in politics.</p>
            <p>I think the "Civil War" metaphor isn't just deceitful, it
              is intentionally provocative and deeply disingenuous.  My
              personal opinion is that the angry Right Mob and the
              Puppeteers yanking their strings wants a *literal* Civil
              War so that they can exercise their superior firepower and
              brutality to obtain/retain singular minority rule over a
              growing majority coalition of minorities.   I think the
              rhetoric of the last year from that quarter trying to
              imply that the LEFT was on the verge of starting a hot
              Civil War if they "didn't get their way" was more
              projection, and intended to create a certain amount of
              cover and/or precedent for the type of coup attempt we saw
              on December 37th and the acute threats of violence from
              the right that has been bubbling for a very long time.   <br>
            </p>
            <p>Perhaps "Cold Civil War" is more apt and less suggestive
              of endorsing/tolerating violence as a means.<br>
            </p>
            <p>Even the most violent of BLM and related protests did not
              aspire to overthrow government or reverse an election.  
              While their attempts to hold law enforcement accountable
              in response to specific recent incidents (it is not a
              small list) and systemic abuses might have risen above a
              threshold of violence that many of us might approve, the
              movement was NOT about disenfranchising anyone except the
              very public servants who are supposed to work for us
              ("Protect and Serve").</p>
            <p>All that said, I'm not unsympathetic with the resentments
              "the common man" has against their elected Representatives
              in our Republic, but any rhetoric that suggests that the
              Left is worse than the Right is acutely disingenuous. <br>
            </p>
            <p>Regarding the term "spin"...  I *do* think it is apt in
              the sense of "making your head spin" but I think the
              metaphor of "churn" is yet more apt in the sense that a
              great deal of the point seems to be to generate lots of
              obfuscation by conflation.   Muddying the waters...</p>
            <p>- Steve<br>
            </p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">That's because you think politics is
                essentially deceitful?
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>-- rec --</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 10, 2021
                  at 1:59 PM <<a
                    href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div lang="EN-US">
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">I always thought the metaphor
                        was to a web of deceit. </p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">n</p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson</p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                          href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                          href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
                        solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
                            href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Critchlow<br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:53
                          PM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
                          Complexity Coffee Group <<a
                            href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)</p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at
                              3:34 PM Prof David West <<a
                                href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
                              wrote:</p>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
                            solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
                            6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="margin-bottom:12pt">schisms might
                              be a better metaphor than civil war.<br>
                              <br>
                              you are correct that there is, and always
                              has been, "churn" among factions within
                              both parties and any significance given to
                              a particular instance of that churn e.g
                              GOPS taking committee assignments away
                              from a flake or the Nevada state party
                              instance — originate in the mind of the
                              one pointing at the event rather than
                              intrinsic to the event itself. One reason
                              that I find most political headlines to be
                              examples of wishful thinking rather than
                              communicators of significance.<br>
                              <br>
                              davew</p>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Second that, it's why
                              they call it spin, cause it makes your
                              head spin if you pay too much attention.</p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">-- rec -- </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
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