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<p>In the spirit of StephenG's dual field theory, I suggest we
"verbize all the nouns" and vice-versa and the answer will emerge,
even it the resulting text sounds a bit too much like reading a
Dr. Seuss book on Psilocybin whilst huffing Helium. <br>
</p>
<p>I must force myself into bed now, I strongly suspect that staying
up late is very hazardous to my posting style and proliferation.
A good night's sleep may relieve many of you from wearing out your
<delete> or <next> buttons. I think my helium tank
and mushroom-log are where I left them when I got up this morning.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/14/21 11:56 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All==<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I want to call attention to Dave’s quandary
at the end of his last message to me. If genes are not “for”
traits but for processes, how does natural selection manage to
“pick out” traits. How do you take a vastly interacting
causal web and get additivity of variance out of it. It seems
to me that Steve’s pathway talk might lead to an answer to
that question. Of what process is natural selection the
PRODUCT? Who or what selects the selector? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric
Charles<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 14, 2021 11:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Spandrel<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes exactly! Humans were not selected
"for noses." Humans were (the argument goes) selected for
shorter jaws. The "protruding" nose is what you end up
with after selection shrinks the jaw. So, if you notice
that humans have noses, and you jump straight to asking
"Why did protruding noses evolve? What adaptive function
do they serve?" you are barking up the wrong tree. Ditto
impacted wisdom teeth. It would be pretty silly to assert
that impacted wisdom teeth were adaptive, even though they
likely resulted from natural selection through the same
pressures that led to noses.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now, the problem with the "nose"
example is that, given the variation in noses around the
world, it is actually quite plausible that nose size and
shape IS adaptive. But that's a different issue ;- ) <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:50 AM Steve
Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nick -<br>
<br>
Not to beat a dead Spandrel, but the nose example doesn't
wash with me. <br>
<br>
In many familiar animals, the nose is perched on the end
of a snout, and<br>
it was the snout that was deprecated in us to the point
that the<br>
nostril-holes with various adaptive properties (downward
facing to keep<br>
rain out, hair-lined and snotty to trap dust and pollen,
(mildly)<br>
turbinated to support humidity/temperature regulation,
sensitive to<br>
support "feeling" things with one's proboscis before we
smash the whole<br>
face into it, loaded with chemically sensitive cells for
"smell", etc)<br>
are highly diminished compared to various creatures like a
daschund or<br>
an elephant or an anteater. Our nose still has
significant affordances<br>
similar/familiar to those listed above (serviceable
smeller, filter,<br>
heat/humidity exchanger, etc ) even if it is not at all
prehensile or<br>
particularly discriminating and if humans have a snout at
all, it is a<br>
highly diminished one. <br>
<br>
I suspect references to "being nosy" and "sticking our
noses in other's<br>
business" is borrowed from watching our snoutful familiars
like horses<br>
or camels or racoons or dogs "nosing around". The
proboscis of our nose<br>
*points* where our eyes are looking (somewhat) so that
conflation may be<br>
mildly meaningful?<br>
<br>
Does "butting out" connote backing out butt-first when one
recognizes<br>
their nosing around isn't welcome?<br>
<br>
<beep><beep><beep><br>
<br>
- Sneeze<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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