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Dave West wrote:<br>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">Pieter quoted: <i>"the brain is a
physical system like any other, and we have no more will to
operate it in a particular way than we will our heart to
beat".</i><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><b>But we do have the ability, and
can "will" our heart to beat in a particular way.</b><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Not only that, we (at least some
individuals in the world) can control pretty much every aspect
of our "autonomous nervous system." I learned how to generate
alpha waves in my brain while awake and talking. Researchers
recently conducted cogent conversations with individuals in the
middle of lucid dreams. Then there is all the "bio-feedback"
data and practices. Hundreds of similar examples could be cited.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Just because we don't, as a
general rule, does not mean we cannot.<br>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">Not saying anything in this post
is an argument for free will — just that the quoted argument
against free will is fatally flawed.<br>
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<p>nahhh... it just looks like you (and the Swamis) can modify
your autonomic functions and your brain waves... the fact is,
given who you/they are in those circumstances, you *had* to, you
couldn't have chosen to do otherwise! In fact you can't help but
*believe* you had free will and exercised it, just like *I* who am
sure you *don't* have free will have no choice but to believe
*that*. Anything else is *inconceivable* ! (<i>"there's that
word again"</i> -Inigio Martinez)<br>
</p>
<p>Or at least *that* is what I choose to believe today. I wonder
if I will have a choice about what I feel about all this today?
Or after some more limp-noodle-beatings of the topic here? <br>
</p>
<p>Arg,</p>
<p> - Smarg</p>
<p>PS... Don't free Willy in the Atlantic, his entire pod is in the
Pacific. Was that a Trump-administration rule, that
unaccompanied minor Orcas stuck in Seaworld can only be released
in an ocean other than that of their origin! Happy onecet of
April!<br>
</p>
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cite="mid:41369208-01ea-497f-967d-89b35e9b4dce@www.fastmail.com">
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<div style="font-family:Arial;">davewest<br>
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<div>On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:<br>
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<div>From a strict scientific perspective I accept that we
don't have free will. I don't argue that we have free will.
I accept, and I quote from the article quoted above:<br>
</div>
<div>"the brain is a physical system like any other, and we
have no more will to operate it in a particular way than we
will our heart to beat". But...<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From how humans perceive our own actions, I assert that
we do have free will of "some sorts''. Similar to some
computer programs that also have free will of "some sorts".
We all agree that AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in Go does not
have free will, it did exactly what the computer code
instructed it to do, but it came up with creative play that
the human programmers did not even know about. This is in my
view also "some sorts" of free will.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at
14:15, Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
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style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204,
204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Was it only 150 years ago when Charles
Darwin first published 'On the Origin of Species' ? It
feels longer. Interesting story from Stephen Cave<br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>-J.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
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