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Marcus wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I once wrote an agent model of some of my
colleagues. It was a minor catharsis. If I were to write
one for agents that have first names that start with the
letter “S”, I’d have a predicate that waited for a long thread
to evolve, and then summarized them with a few tangential
snarkier-than-thou remarks. It would be a better
accomplishment to learn the deterministic agent behavior with
a hidden markov model, maybe. Authorship comes with the
ability to embellish, which is maybe one appeal of ABMs. </p>
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<br>
<p>So... "snarkier than thou" isn't the FriAM objective function?
I'm sure I get a double-dose from having both first and last name
beginning with 'S'. I should probably try reading with a
different lens... <br>
</p>
<p>To be fair (to me, because, who else?) I wrote that one much
earlier in the thread than it appeared. I am fairly busy on
Fridays which is one of the reasons I don't weigh in often on
vFriam... but whilst in the spirit of April 1, I couldn't help
misreading the original subject line. I might have taken the
extra moment to trace the whole thread that followed, but I
suppose I imagined everyone likely to weigh in on the thread was
on vFriam beating the horse of free will with their gumflaps
rather than their touchtyping. My bad.<br>
</p>
<p>I *will* claim the title "more tangential than though" and maybe
even "TL;DR-er than though", and as evidenced here "more
self-explanatory than though".<br>
</p>
Your ABMs could be rather revealing and perhaps therefore
entertaining...<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Steve Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 2, 2021 1:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dave West wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Pieter
quoted: <i>"the brain is a physical system like any
other, and we have no more will to operate it in a
particular way than we will our heart to beat".</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">But
we do have the ability, and can "will" our heart to
beat in a particular way.</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not
only that, we (at least some individuals in the world)
can control pretty much every aspect of our "autonomous
nervous system." I learned how to generate alpha waves
in my brain while awake and talking. Researchers
recently conducted cogent conversations with individuals
in the middle of lucid dreams. Then there is all the
"bio-feedback" data and practices. Hundreds of similar
examples could be cited.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Just
because we don't, as a general rule, does not mean we
cannot.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not
saying anything in this post is an argument for free
will — just that the quoted argument against free will
is fatally flawed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>nahhh... it just looks like you (and the Swamis) can modify
your autonomic functions and your brain waves... the fact is,
given who you/they are in those circumstances, you *had* to,
you couldn't have chosen to do otherwise! In fact you can't
help but *believe* you had free will and exercised it, just
like *I* who am sure you *don't* have free will have no choice
but to believe *that*. Anything else is *inconceivable* ! (<i>"there's
that word again"</i> -Inigio Martinez)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Or at least *that* is what I choose to believe today. I
wonder if I will have a choice about what I feel about all
this today? Or after some more limp-noodle-beatings of the
topic here?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Arg,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> - Smarg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>PS... Don't free Willy in the Atlantic, his entire pod is in
the Pacific. Was that a Trump-administration rule, that
unaccompanied minor Orcas stuck in Seaworld can only be
released in an ocean other than that of their origin! Happy
onecet of April!<o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davewest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Pieter
Steenekamp wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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id="qt">
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From a strict scientific
perspective I accept that we don't have free will. I
don't argue that we have free will. I accept, and I
quote from the article quoted above:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"the brain is a physical system
like any other, and we have no more will to operate it
in a particular way than we will our heart to beat".
But...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From how humans perceive our own
actions, I assert that we do have free will of "some
sorts''. Similar to some computer programs that also
have free will of "some sorts". We all agree that
AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in Go does not have free
will, it did exactly what the computer code instructed
it to do, but it came up with creative play that the
human programmers did not even know about. This is in
my view also "some sorts" of free will.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 14:15, Jochen
Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Was it only 150 years ago when
Charles Darwin first published 'On the Origin of
Species' ? It feels longer. Interesting story from
Stephen Cave<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-J.<o:p></o:p></p>
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