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<p>Jochen -</p>
<p>I grew up on Grimm (and Aesop, and Uncle Remus, and Kipling(thus
all my "just so" stories)?) how ffffFFing GRIM! They were. A
good counterpoint to the Little Red Hen/Frau Holle (Calvinist?)
parables might be the "Ant and the Cicada" at least in the 18c
French Version, where there is no judgement held (necessarily)
against the Grasshopper by the Ant... allowing room for diversity
of values and differing objects of value (the Ant valuing the
Cicada/Grasshopper's music and exchanging his *hoard* of foodstuff
in exchange for comraderie and entertainment). Some
(Calvinists? Libertarians) would perhaps consider this
translation an "apologistic" version, "letting the lazy/stuid
Cicada off too easy". What WOULD Ayn Rand say?</p>
<p>- SS<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:202104041221.134CLH86054559@ame2.swcp.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">The fable of the little red hen is unknown here in
Germany, but everyone knows the fairy tales of the brothers
Grimm. There is a fairy tale named "Mother Hulda" (Frau Holle)
which is a parable that <span style="background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: -apple-system,
BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Lato,
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">hard work is
rewarded and laziness is punished. These fairy tales are
similar to the parables in the Bible. </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle</a></div>
<div dir="auto">-J.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000" align="left">
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> </div>
<div>Date: 4/4/21 05:32 (GMT+01:00) </div>
<div>To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Marcus hath wroth:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="quotation"><span class="quotationChar"><span
style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal">I know Nick
once dreamed of publications out of FRIAM</span></span>.<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick doth reply: </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="quotation">Well, I have already gotten two
publications out of writing to this list (in part). It’s a
case of <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">little
red hen</span></a> syndrome. Or perhaps the reverse: you
all helped me and I still I ate all the bread. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus
Daniels<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 3, 2021 11:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Part of the model would involve finding
seasonality like that. A difficult part would be building
the NLP capability to generate plausible sentences from each
agent type. However, there’s a big archive to draw upon if
one were to take a statistical inference approach. General
dispositions would be pretty easy, I think. At least they
are obvious to me. Also noteworthy is that there are
classes of subconversations that I think just has to do with
demographics. For example, remember the late XYZ.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I know Nick once dreamed of publications
out of FRIAM. I wonder if he’d settle for a finite state
machine? If it all worked out, though, I’d have to find a
replacement procrastination activity.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 3, 2021 9:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class="MsoNormal"> Marcus wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">I once wrote an agent model of some of my
colleagues. It was a minor catharsis. If I were to write
one for agents that have first names that start with the
letter “S”, I’d have a predicate that waited for a long
thread to evolve, and then summarized them with a few
tangential snarkier-than-thou remarks. It would be a
better accomplishment to learn the deterministic agent
behavior with a hidden markov model, maybe. Authorship
comes with the ability to embellish, which is maybe one
appeal of ABMs. </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>So... "snarkier than thou" isn't the FriAM objective
function? I'm sure I get a double-dose from having both
first and last name beginning with 'S'. I should probably try
reading with a different lens... </p>
<p>To be fair (to me, because, who else?) I wrote that one much
earlier in the thread than it appeared. I am fairly busy on
Fridays which is one of the reasons I don't weigh in often on
vFriam... but whilst in the spirit of April 1, I couldn't
help misreading the original subject line. I might have
taken the extra moment to trace the whole thread that
followed, but I suppose I imagined everyone likely to weigh in
on the thread was on vFriam beating the horse of free will
with their gumflaps rather than their touchtyping. My bad.</p>
<p>I *will* claim the title "more tangential than though" and
maybe even "TL;DR-er than though", and as evidenced here "more
self-explanatory than though".</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class="MsoNormal">Your ABMs
could be rather revealing and perhaps therefore
entertaining...</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 2, 2021 1:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class="MsoNormal">Dave West
wrote:<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Pieter
quoted: <i>"the brain is a physical system like any
other, and we have no more will to operate it in a
particular way than we will our heart to beat".</i></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">But
we do have the ability, and can "will" our heart to
beat in a particular way.</span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not
only that, we (at least some individuals in the world)
can control pretty much every aspect of our
"autonomous nervous system." I learned how to generate
alpha waves in my brain while awake and talking.
Researchers recently conducted cogent conversations
with individuals in the middle of lucid dreams. Then
there is all the "bio-feedback" data and practices.
Hundreds of similar examples could be cited.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Just
because we don't, as a general rule, does not mean we
cannot.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Not
saying anything in this post is an argument for free
will — just that the quoted argument against free will
is fatally flawed.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>nahhh... it just looks like you (and the Swamis) can
modify your autonomic functions and your brain waves... the
fact is, given who you/they are in those circumstances, you
*had* to, you couldn't have chosen to do otherwise! In
fact you can't help but *believe* you had free will and
exercised it, just like *I* who am sure you *don't* have
free will have no choice but to believe *that*. Anything
else is *inconceivable* ! (<i>"there's that word again"</i>
-Inigio Martinez)</p>
<p>Or at least *that* is what I choose to believe today. I
wonder if I will have a choice about what I feel about all
this today? Or after some more limp-noodle-beatings of the
topic here? </p>
<p>Arg,</p>
<p> - Smarg</p>
<p>PS... Don't free Willy in the Atlantic, his entire pod is
in the Pacific. Was that a Trump-administration rule, that
unaccompanied minor Orcas stuck in Seaworld can only be
released in an ocean other than that of their origin! Happy
onecet of April!</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davewest</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM,
Pieter Steenekamp wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote id="qt"
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From a strict scientific
perspective I accept that we don't have free will. I
don't argue that we have free will. I accept, and I
quote from the article quoted above:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"the brain is a physical system
like any other, and we have no more will to operate
it in a particular way than we will our heart to
beat". But...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From how humans perceive our own
actions, I assert that we do have free will of "some
sorts''. Similar to some computer programs that also
have free will of "some sorts". We all agree that
AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in Go does not have free
will, it did exactly what the computer code
instructed it to do, but it came up with creative
play that the human programmers did not even know
about. This is in my view also "some sorts" of free
will.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 14:15,
Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204, 204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Was it only 150 years ago
when Charles Darwin first published 'On the
Origin of Species' ? It feels longer.
Interesting story from Stephen Cave</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-J.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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