<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Roger -</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I got stopped at the paywall for the
full text but from the abstract I was a little befuddled. What I
*wanted* to read/hear/believe was that thier use of
"proprioception" is an example of the plant maintaining/developing
a "model" of the past (and therefore potential future) range of
motion/stress of it's elements which is then used to guide it's
development even when it isn't under immediate deformation? <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The abstract seems to use
"proprioception" to imply that the plant somehow collectively
generates some movement like what was being induced on it by the
environment, even when it isn't being distorted/stressed from the
outside? <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Probably it is more clear in the full
article.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">- Steve<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGayqovyueK6i7e+e--7=EsZFPtUnj8TFqhbyW=L3v23bbcxfA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>From yesterday's issue of Science: <a
href="https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6540/eabc6868"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6540/eabc6868</a>, <span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Roboto
Condensed","Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Fluctuations
shape plants through proprioception</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Roboto
Condensed","Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(230,230,230)">Plants
constantly experience fluctuating internal and
external mechanical cues, ranging from nanoscale
deformation of wall components, cell growth
variability, nutating stems, and fluttering leaves to
stem flexion under tree weight and wind drag.
Developing plants use such fluctuations to monitor and
channel their own shape and growth through a form of
proprioception. Fluctuations in mechanical cues may
also be actively enhanced, producing oscillating
behaviors in tissues. For example, proprioception
through leaf nastic movements may promote organ
flattening. We propose that fluctuation-enhanced
proprioception allows plant organs to sense their own
shapes and behave like active materials with adaptable
outputs to face variable environments, whether
internal or external. Because certain shapes are more
amenable to fluctuations, proprioception may also help
plant shapes to reach self-organized criticality to
support such adaptability.</span><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Roboto
Condensed","Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This review is against the view that plant morphology
is simply a deterministic developmental program with
environmental noise imposed on it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- rec --</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 2:29
PM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>programming/problem domain aside, what a "blast from the
past" with (mostly?) deprecated toolkits/chains/standards:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>SunOS vs Solaris, VGA output, TCL, PERL, C vs C++,
and OMG Forth!</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Steampunk or maybe Dieselpunk era hardware/software! A
Clackers' delight!<br>
</p>
<div>On 4/23/21 11:44 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Possibly of interest
<a href="https://qiskit.org/events/physics-of-computation/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://qiskit.org/events/physics-of-computation/</a>
There was one of these at SFI for a while, if memory serves. I never used it.
<a href="http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/cam8/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/cam8/</a>
<a href="https://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/cam8.pdf" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/cam8.pdf</a>
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:26 AM
To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] thermodynamics of gambling demons
On 4/23/21 7:20 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre><a href="https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603</a>
<a href="https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.080603></a>
If the demon "decides" to quit while it's ahead, it "wins", and the
entropy of the universe decreases.
-- rec --
via
<a href="https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startle" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startle</a>
-scientists-20210422/
<a href="https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startle-scientists-20210422/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-maxwells-demon-continues-to-startl
e-scientists-20210422/></a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I was totally captivated by the Reversible Computing work presented by Margolus, Fredkin, Toffoli in the 1983 Cellular Automata conference at Los Alamos. I was brand new and easily impressed by some measures but the breadth of work presented during that week was amazing. Even though I stayed "in" the orbit of all that work on through the first decade of the ALife movement, I always felt I was pursuing a mirage "just over the horizon". My day job never aligned with this work so the available time/horsepower I had to pursue it was limited.
I am not surprised to see that Quantum Computing/Information has added it's own twist, I'd be curious if Marcus (or anyone else) has some first-hand perspective) on this.
<a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9503016" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9503016</a>
<a href="http://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/thesis.pdf" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://people.csail.mit.edu/nhm/thesis.pdf</a>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiard-ball_computer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiard-ball_computer</a>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_philosophy" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_philosophy</a>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_physics#Pancomputationalism" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_physics#Pancomputationalism</a>
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe</a> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>