<div dir="auto">Since most who have opinions won't read the Wikipedia article I copy the paragraph at the end that I recommended to Jon here.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:-apple-system,blinkmacsystemfont,"segoe ui",roboto,lato,helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Numerous research studies have found that most all models of psychotherapy are equally helpful, the difference mainly being the quality of the individual therapist, not the theory the therapist subscribes to. Object Relations Theory attempts to explain this phenomenon via the theory of the Good Object. If a therapist can be patient and empathic, most clients improve their functioning in their world. The client carries with them a picture of the empathic therapist that helps them cope with the stressors of daily life, regardless of what theory of psychology they subscribe to.</span></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#202122" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, lato, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#202122" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, lato, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px"><br></span></font><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 5:14 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">To make that claim, you'd have to walk through all the medicine that's happening, analgesics, physical therapy, acupuncture, dentistry, etc.. Walking through the psychiatry that's happening is a much smaller task. I agree there does seem to be a lot of it, though ... I just have no idea if it's *most*.<br>
<br>
As long as I'm logging opinions, I'd answer Jon's question about psycho*dynamics* with the idea I think I got from Thomas Saaz, that it's fundamentally about creating a therapist-patient relationship ... dovetailing 2 types of raw persuasion/manipulation in order to achieve the ends of the therapist or patient (or both). My guess is the tone of that coercion depends deeply on the 2 parties. Some authoritarian therapists may rely on daddy-mommy-child constructs. Others may be more egalitarian, pushing the ethical boundaries on friendship with one's patients. Etc. Lots of people who lack intimate relationships might come to a better place through such intentional relationship forming.<br>
<br>
But it needn't be through psychodynamics. I know a few people who've done it with their fitness coach, or life coach. One guy I knew back in Texas regularly visited a round-robin of prostitutes. I joke with my bartenders that I pay them to be my friends ... Good jokes must have some truth in them.<br>
<br>
On 4/29/21 3:47 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br>
> By that definition most of medicine is bullshit.<br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of u?l? ???<br>
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:27 PM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Natures_Queer_Performativity_the_authori.pdf<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306068036_Psychiatry_as_Bullshit" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306068036_Psychiatry_as_Bullshit</a><br>
> <br>
> On 4/29/21 3:21 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br>
>> Jon,<br>
>><br>
>> I am sorry I disappointed you. My understanding of object relations theory is like swiss cheese and I chose not to provide an inadequate response by humming a few bars. By the way, object-relations theory provides a non-Oedipal alternative to your interpretation as explained by the Wikipedia article. I became the withholding bad object to you. I hope you will be able to integrate that with the good object I have been at times.<br>
>><br>
>> Good for Glen.<br>
>><br>
>> I am not a practitioner of psychoanalytic theory but it may not be for you. As for psychoanalytic /treatment, /see the last paragraph of the Wikipedia article.<br>
>><br>
>> Warmly,<br>
>><br>
>> Frank<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 4:09 PM jon zingale <<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jonzingale@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Frank,<br>
>><br>
>> To some extent, your response is indicative of the psychoanalytic<br>
>> ends I criticize, the mommy-daddy-me Oedipal construction. Rather than<br>
>> pick up on the opportunity presented by the conversation to engage in an<br>
>> act of creativity (contributing to a forum), you use your agency to make<br>
>> an authoritative (daddy) appeal to an object away from yourself and your<br>
>> agency (the Wikipedia article). This action strikes me as functionally<br>
>> different than Glen's earlier reference, say. While Glen's appeal acts to<br>
>> ground and facilitate a living discussion, yours aims to end one. I felt<br>
>> that the question I asked was fair, to hum a few bars regarding a<br>
>> connection you are making that perhaps could contribute. If this sort of<br>
>> short-circuiting of concepts and conversation is what I can expect from<br>
>> practitioners of psychoanalytic theory, well, maybe it's not for me.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ<br>
<br>
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