<div dir="ltr">Well we can <i>imagine </i>both. Problem is actually getting either one.<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 9:05 PM Gary Schiltz <<a href="mailto:gary@naturesvisualarts.com" target="_blank">gary@naturesvisualarts.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">It's hard to imagine UBI in the United States, when you (we, before I left) can't even get a universal health care system.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:47 PM Gillian Densmore <<a href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com" target="_blank">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">We have a globe getting pimp slapped by a virus. People getting shit canned for no other reason than breathing. WAstate and one other was/is back to full lockdown, Canada still is.<div>The question isn't reely is UBI a good/bad idea but how fucking fast do we make it happen? and for how much. I'd submit that a UBI musti be at 70k a year min, and tied to the trust costs of living and inflation. That's 30 an hour and the low end of 'upper middle clast' from the 80s. Plus a bit for savings and fun.</div><div><br></div><div>Probably should be pegged at the true costs of living for the most expensive place in the US to live, for a house hold of 3. So that a lot of people are covered. Because as is how many people are paycheck to paycheck for no other reason than luck? a lot. between lobyests, a fucking toxic why should we mediacrity penny ante mentality min wage was and is still contorted to the least we can legall get away with. We call that wage-slavery. So good chance that someone who gets a 5k a month check would then be able to pay off debts. Invest in some stocks and themselves. IMO that sounds fucking amazing to me.</div><div>San Franciscos costs of living, true costs of living waaay the F back in the 90s was 80k a year. it's now about 200k. As reported by any source thats reputable, and yet wages their haven't gone up more than 9.75-12 an hour. A single room BRM appartment their at 15% bellow average market rate can easily average 2k a month.</div><div>As it is now a single person just would not be able to afford that.</div><div>Ergo UBI would keep them housed.</div><div><br></div><div>Some massively large percent of the 30+ generation right now can't even save,, have to work 2+ jobs. Go make conversation with anyone at Smiths. a lot of those people have to work 3 jobs. Why should UBI be a question? the reel question must be not if, but when, and how much.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 5:27 PM Gillian Densmore <<a href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com" target="_blank">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">The simplest case for a UBI is current and past pandemics. Simply put that for some asinine reason our sense of maslow's hierarchy of needs has gone tits up fucked.<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 5:23 PM Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" target="_blank">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">A couple of facts that relate to some of the points raised.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I was following a car that had a bumper sticker that said, "Eat the Rich".</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">A man paid $50 million for a penthouse (5 story) in Manhattan. He committed suicide when he couldn't sell it for $35 million. His wife wanted to live where she could have horses. If anyone cares i can tell you who he was.<br><br><div dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 4, 2021, 3:42 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yeah, I agree. But as the miscommunication about the dimension of simplices vs. orthogonal dimensionality seems to indicate, reduction need not imply linearity, and if reduction is used iteratively to discover interestingness, that provenance/method/algorithm need not be lost (1st order Markovian). A practical example might be <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projection_pursuit" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projection_pursuit</a><br>
<br>
Like abstraction <-> concretization, there's de-objectification that's part of a complete skill set. Competent objectifiers retain enough history to at least approximate the starting point. <br>
<br>
On 5/4/21 1:37 PM, jon zingale wrote:<br>
> """<br>
> Reduction is a triumph if it captures what you're looking for.<br>
> """<br>
> <br>
> When reductions capture what one is looking for then the resulting<br>
> categories<br>
> make for powerful rhetoric. IMO, it is exactly that reductions to crisp<br>
> objects<br>
> capture what *some* want, while obfuscating the desired objects of others,<br>
> that<br>
> makes the whole reduction-objectification game so insidious in practice (a<br>
> kind<br>
> of conceptual imperialism?). Sometimes objects can be presented with such<br>
> clarity<br>
> and precision that it becomes difficult to imagine any others, to dislodge<br>
> unproductive beliefs or practices, or to remember that the objects are<br>
> fantastic<br>
> shorthands.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ<br>
<br>
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