<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">
p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">I am not, but will purchase and read asap.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Sat, May 8, 2021, at 12:30 AM, Steve Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><p>Dave -<br></p><p>I think I have referenced these before but your anecdotes here
remind me of Jim Scott's "Against the Grain" and "The Art of Not
Being Governed". I wonder if you are familiar with any of his
work?<br></p><p>- Steve<br></p><div class="qt-moz-cite-prefix">On 5/7/21 8:02 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:43290a23-cde1-4b1b-9742-e586e1fa2dae@www.fastmail.com"><div style="font-family:Arial;">Russ,<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Your intuition is partly correct:
these societies, for the most part, were embedded in an
extensive cultural web of kinship, norms, rituals, world-view —
like any culture or any people. It appears to us that their
culture was more pervasive, expressed more consistently, and
"enforced" more dramatically, but that is not necessarily true.
It would be the case that those participating in those cultures
would not experience their culture as, in any way, oppressive.
In fact, they would be just as oblivious to their culture as we
are to our own.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">None of these cultures were
authoritarian in any sense. Leadership was situational - a "war
chief" when threatened, a "forager chief" during the harvest
season. The only permanent leadership position would be the
"shaman" who was, more often than not, female.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Some of the societies were
hierarchical and authoritarian to some degree, like the Inca.
But even they were able to establish and maintain a vast trading
network from southern Chile to Meso-America and even into what
is not the southwest US - all without money. Quiipu, knotted
strings, recorded facts or information, like how much of what
commodity was sent where by whom, but no concept of money or
'exchange rate'.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">All of these societies were
'brittle' in the sense that none of them survived encounter with
European colonizers.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">If you ever have the inclination,
explore water management on Bali. The indigenous culture
allocated water among rice fields based on a complicated system
of myths, rituals, and interpreted omens, a classical
intra-cultural solution, The Dutch came along and implemented a
"scientific" water management system and immediately lost 50% of
rice production and initiated a decade of near starvation before
they gave up and let the priests take over water management
again.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Bali is an excellent example of
how an optimum solution to a complex (in the SFI sense) problem
"evolves" over generations of trial and error with successes
preserved via myth and ritual.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">A related curiosity (for extra
credit) — in every hunter-gatherer society of which anthropology
is aware, the men hunt and the women gather. To date, no one
has been able to explain why. It cannot be explained by maternal
roles or physical capacity. The range of theories proposed and
debunked over the years is quite large and often very amusing.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Thu, May 6, 2021, at 10:20 AM, Russ Abbott wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt-qt" style=""><div dir="ltr"><div class="qt-qt-gmail_default" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thanks,
David.<br></div><div class="qt-qt-gmail_default" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></div><div class="qt-qt-gmail_default" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">I
have no background in <span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Arial;">Economic
Anthropology</span></span></span><span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Arial;"> and
am interested in hearing about societies that function
effectively without something like money. My intuition
(perhaps wrong) is that the only ways to make that work
over extended periods are rigid societal structures
(enforced, perhaps by powerful, well-established
cultural norms) or force/power (as in authoritarian
societies). In both cases, it seems likely (although,
again, I could be wrong) that such societies will be
quite static, inflexible, and brittle in the face of
challenges. Are the societies you cite different from
such paradigms?</span></span></span><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="qt-qt-gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-qt-gmail_attr">On Thu, May 6, 2021 at
7:30 AM Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Russ raised the question
about alternatives to capitalism. A quick perusal of a
good Economic Anthropology textbook can provide numerous
examples. Many of which worked at a scale far greater
than 150 people. Example: an Aboriginal economic system
that incorporated multiple tribes in an area from the
north coast of Australia to the interior of the
continent; or, pre-Columbian Incas.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">These systems were
established and maintained by being embedded in the
overall culture: i.e. because of a vast web of kinship,
inter-personal, obligation, concrete resources, myth,
and ritual. In contrast, modern economic systems
(capitalism or Marxism, or ...) are divorced from
"reality" and exist in a world of abstractions.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Christopher Alexander
illustrated this distinction with regard to architecture
and the difference between what he called the
selfconscious and the non-selfconscious process of
building. In the latter, the knowledge of how to build
and maintain a house, for example, was embedded in myth
and ritual and "common sense knowledge." Ideal designs,
ones adapted to the context — physical and cultural —
evolved over time and preserved by being embedded in the
culture.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Selfconscious design is
epitomized by academic schools of architecture where
abstract concepts of design arise and "good" design is
judged by conformity to the abstractions and is divorced
from reality.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Similarly with economic
systems. The root of all evil is money which is an
abstraction. How much "wealth" is grounded in
abstractions of abstractions of abstractions in
capitalist economic systems? Marxism might be marginally
better than capitalism simply because it has never had
the time an opportunity to develop the same kind of
meta-abstraction structures that are prevalent in
capitalism.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Human evolved a left-brain
and it is our ruination.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Thu, May 6, 2021, at 5:21 AM, David Eric Smith
wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt-qt-gmail-m_4702457482203201306qt"><div>Hi Pieter,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Not that it matters (to anything), but No, zero
support for Chomsky from me.<br></div><div><br></div><div>He is the archetype of a bully and a demagogue. It
was his MO in linguistics his entire career, a field
that was susceptible to that sort of thing, and to
which he has done great harm. It’s a shame, too,
because as you say, he is smart, and some of his early
ideas were interesting and insightful. <br></div><div><br></div><div>That is not an ad hominem to the side, it is a
propos de his political writing. I do think some of
his criticisms of the predatoriness of the American
system are correct, and they benefit from his
intelligence and energy. But I think your criticism
that all he does is stand in judgment from the
sidelines and not bear human responsibility for what
happens when you get things wrong is just the right
one.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Have you noticed that there are some people who
seem deeply grounded in a concern for others’
wellbeing, and seem to work tirelessly to help? I
have the impression that, for instance, Karen Bass (a
US congresswoman who was for a time considered for
Vice President) is such a person. The best kind of
people who rise within civil rights movements and
causes. I am struck by how often they have no
interest in blaming and judging; it is a distraction
from the work they are trying to do.<br></div><div><br></div><div>On the other side, there are people who choose
causes that may have righteous elements, but seem to
choose them for the reinforcement of identity it gives
them to stand in condemning judgment on others. That
is all I can see in Chomsky. It doesn’t mean
everything he says is wrong, and criticisms have a
place. But a premise that there is any kind of
anarchism that doesn’t instantly get taken over by
gangs seems way too anti-empirical to be claimed as a
“smart” position.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But fair enough to argue the claims,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Eric<br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May 6, 2021, at 4:28 PM, Pieter Steenekamp
<<a href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za" target="_blank">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>I have a little book On Anarchism by
Noam Chomsky. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Chomsky is IMO a very smart person and
it's maybe worthwhile to pay attention to
his ideas?<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>Although I don't want to reject his
ideas, my mind is open, I'm not
convinced it will work out as intended.
The problem is he offers anarchism as an
idea without specifics of how to
implement it and how the valid concerns
about it can be addressed.<br></div><div><br></div><div>At least, Chomsky's abhorrence of
capitalism will maybe find fertile
ground among some members of this group?<br></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 08:34,
Russ Abbott <<a href="mailto:russ.abbott@gmail.com" target="_blank">russ.abbott@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="auto">Eric, You explained many
of the problems in much more depth and
detail than I did. Well done. Thanks.<br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Wed, May 5, 2021, 4:46
PM David Eric Smith <<a href="mailto:desmith@santafe.edu" target="_blank">desmith@santafe.edu</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div>Yes, agreed, Russ, with
amendments.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I wrote some long awful thing
on this yesterday and had the good
manners to delete without sending.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think capitalism isn’t even
about money; there are two issues:
capitalist property rights and
monetary or financial layers in
the economy.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I know Glen doesn’t like the
terms “means of production”, but
we can capture a big subset with
an everyday term like “tools”.
Tools are durable things, built at
cost with the intent that they can
be repeatedly used. They are not
a monetary store of value, but
they are, in other material
senses, a store of
transformational power over things
one wants to transform.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But as soon as there is a tool,
there is a decision problem over
how it can be used and by whom. I
think “ownership rights” is the
name we give to any solution to
(meaning, “commitment to some
protocol for”) that problem. With
ownership then comes at least an
incentive, and in many real,
limited-information settings, a
realized ability, for the de facto
owner of a tool to guide where the
productive output using the tool
goes. It’s kind of the default
basic-layer dynamic that follows
from tool creation and tool
ownership. We can understand how
tricky that instability can be to
manage from study of these
intricate and fancy mechanisms in
hunter-gatherer societies to blunt
the concentration of power
(arrow-sharing that guides who
gets meat; the kind of thing Sam
Bowles studies). Ownership
provides a channel for itself to
concentrate, and to concentrate
other things (obliquely, referring
to “wealth” by whatever measure).
That seems to me the essence of
the capitalist problem, which then
takes various forms depending on
social institutional choices.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It seems to me that we don’t
want to give up tools, so we can’t
give up the problem of committing
to some solution for ownership,
and with that, we have to face up
to the complex problem of
regulating against the tendency of
ownership to concentrate its de
facto power by redirecting the
proceeds of things produced.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This is why I don’t buy, as an
empirical matter, Pieter’s
optimism about things’ becoming
too cheap to meter. In some ways,
and in projections to some
dimensions, yes, that is a fair
description. Computer operating
systems used to be
pay-per-version, now many are
free. Communication used to be
charge-per-use, now much of it is
paid for by advertising (“free”
only in an extreme distortion of
what dimensions carry value, but
nonetheless one that has taken
most people some years to become
aware of). But the very way the
rise of the concentration of
wealth in the Tech sector before,
and even more grotesquely so
during the pandemic, is raising
all the old arguments about the
capitalist class, seems to me to
show even in quite abstract
domains of information and
coordination services, that tool
ownership has default
instabilities that always act
unless we can find effective
regulatory strategies to blunt
them.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In this sense I think Glen does
make the most important point,
which is that if there is a strong
argument about UBI, its context is
overwhelmingly about the problem
that innovations in absolute
output seem always coupled to
concentrations of inequality.
Relative to that, almost
everything Shapiro said in that
piece was tropes that, at 15
places in the short talk, gave me
an internal impulse to go cite the
person who shows they are tropes
by providing the good-faith and
well thought-out counterargument.
It is a bit sad that Yang doesn’t
feel able (and maybe isn’t able)
to take that bull by the horns and
say that this is where the UBI
question lives. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>To me, money is a somewhat
separate question: a mechanism for
the distribution of permissions,
communication, authority, etc.,
which makes certain coordination
problems tractable that otherwise
wouldn’t be. I don’t think we
want to give up the ability to use
that, and even if some did, so
many others don’t that there
probably is no path for society
that keeps it gone. But, as many
in the thread have so well said
already, money is a terrible
dimension-reducer, and the
problems of “store of
transformation power” that come
with tool ownership, then take on
new versions as “store of value”
which is a kind of exchangeable
access to ownership rights over
everything. But again, if we
either can’t or (I will accept the
position of) don’t want to give up
what it allows us to do, we again
face the complexity and difficulty
of inventing or evolving (in
whatever combinations) regulatory
strategies to try to limits its
default instabilities.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, to say I agree with
Russ’s motivation to push this
point.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Eric<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May 6, 2021, at 8:15
AM, Russ Abbott <<a href="mailto:russ.abbott@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">russ.abbott@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style=""><span class="qt-size" style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:small;">Earlie</span></span></span></span></span></span></span>r,
uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ said:<span style="color:rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style=""><span class="qt-size" style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:small;"> If
we're stuck
with
capitalism,
then I'm for
UBI. If we can
get out from
under
capitalism,
then I'm not.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></span></span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Nick
added: </span></span></span>it
is the "triumph" of
capitalism to reduce all
relationships to money. <br></div><div><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></span></span><br></div><div><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">I
wonder if this is
not assuming that
there is an
alternative to what
you are calling <i>capitalism</i>. </span></span></span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">A</span></span></span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">s </span></span></span>uǝlƃ
↙↙↙ points out<span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">,
co-ops can work on
relatively small
scales, </span></span></span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">but if
we are going to live
in groups of larger
than ~150 people,
how are you
imagining that we
will arrange
interactions without
something like
money? Even on small
scales, how will a
collective </span></span></span><span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">without
money </span></span></span></span><span><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">organize
itself in anything
other than a very
static structure?
And on larger
scales, what is
the organizing
principle other
than power? It's
not clear to me
how an alternative
that </span></span></span></span>uǝlƃ
↙↙↙ is supposing
possible will actually
work.
uǝlƃ ↙↙↙, would you mind
elaborating what you
have in mind?<br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span></span><br></div><div dir="ltr"><span></span><span style="color:rgb(33, 33, 33);line-height:24.75px;"><span style=""><span class="qt-font" style=""><span style=""><span class="qt-size" style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:16.5px;"></span></span></span></span></span></span>--
Russ Abbott
<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Wed, May
5, 2021 at 2:17 PM jon
zingale <<a href="mailto:jonzingale@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jonzingale@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div>Yeah, I think it is
safe to say that "huge
costs" are a sign of
progress in<br></div><div>the same sense that
smoke is a sign of
fire.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--<br></div><div>Sent from: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer
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Mtn GMT-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,CkfWaRYP8Ou59L3I5OyvQtJfIgRunN6VFBc5hlGXqE5iwH3aYVDJwCFKzHFPUjQ9ZnlTnbKC42bnhhV_wAqM9BrQUqjnHM6s4C6A0-o3whFaFo6n&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,HvHemFf2nk0pmKFfepLt4TjD9M0l85-biXwWC8q1bDKUBWfGef5Pp4Z2OaB4yeeC70js6t9PL7JWWobCvanB8lkdtjzzeU5B2MyE71I8yLva0JHOlkvd&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,HvHemFf2nk0pmKFfepLt4TjD9M0l85-biXwWC8q1bDKUBWfGef5Pp4Z2OaB4yeeC70js6t9PL7JWWobCvanB8lkdtjzzeU5B2MyE71I8yLva0JHOlkvd&typo=1</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,hJjRlBRGPCYAOdnxTw5QVB4Q0ocBaxbtaEss45GRX4-RlpSNQeL5uf0s3YhCU85yWo5p3xbeZ_FFkfQvinBq4gWd_Qk45IPfkEehh0t_&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,hJjRlBRGPCYAOdnxTw5QVB4Q0ocBaxbtaEss45GRX4-RlpSNQeL5uf0s3YhCU85yWo5p3xbeZ_FFkfQvinBq4gWd_Qk45IPfkEehh0t_&typo=1</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ...
-..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,3Bkjyl0WipDLgVpLfdQyVQ5x5wEzROFp7D_06nPly9Eyo1HteHQ2wTsnPj_NuBSolz8Kws2_3xtDUNCqiX3XMQAUCrKnxPFO-iBJPfyDhqg19SSOWAz586onxlE,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,GFPneq_O_burrrvJ_YdLKU0rOc9LP7rvCq-41LfhZ9EXQz8v8fqYxGGz1KTod0UnLOVXfSP1xRrYTrPqJYIN5VBQAZL3Q4J28_MKH5xo8Io45Q,,&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,ZnNxTP9wOGe46DdCIbHrA52baINqGOXsMNZxhEI10Srkmbl3Qh5wsCAdzjGgoO9yqVzu2ogfbNbcIKhMnlWiUjpuiCf3MvXd90AvUyhC5K38vWZY&typo=1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.
.... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,Q2G82OKwFizNYT01kvdGo6qUzY12pbzhX3XghM6V7QCnrCM5QWOvoyUvI2uXSNpCEIRAFGCitcVgmV_XcV2MnlMRRDWK9T0UTgo3zcGn7w,,&typo=1" target="_blank">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,Q2G82OKwFizNYT01kvdGo6qUzY12pbzhX3XghM6V7QCnrCM5QWOvoyUvI2uXSNpCEIRAFGCitcVgmV_XcV2MnlMRRDWK9T0UTgo3zcGn7w,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,2QEltESSUHDfYg0n3x56nqqLswxiSH6BWPiZBwf3GXKdUANnjx2v24nWoF-5y2PO5TlLvlwQ-VtaVMSEni6QFpPZsHzon72QSREMgwq_DqPmbdagLRwW-3zllQ,,&typo=1" target="_blank">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,2QEltESSUHDfYg0n3x56nqqLswxiSH6BWPiZBwf3GXKdUANnjx2v24nWoF-5y2PO5TlLvlwQ-VtaVMSEni6QFpPZsHzon72QSREMgwq_DqPmbdagLRwW-3zllQ,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... .
.-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div><br></div><pre class="qt-moz-quote-pre">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a class="qt-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
<br></pre></blockquote><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote></body></html>