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<p>Stellar Eric!</p>
<p>Two observations:</p>
<p> I recently learned the term "Teleonomic" which I really like
as an alternative to "Telelogical" in many cases.</p>
<p> And what of the difference between "Light follows a
shortest-time path through space" and "Light IS the shortest time
path through space"?</p>
<p>Both of the latter may be wrong, but they are qualitatively
different in an interesting way, no?</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/8/21 9:13 PM, David Eric Smith
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8180340A-9A43-4B25-983C-F9FCE7CA6253@santafe.edu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
English has two categories of verbs: intransitive and transitive.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you use an intransitive verb — “yet it moves” —
the Metaphor Nazi will catch you coming: claiming you are
representing volition.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you use a transitive verb — “it is moved by
gravity” — the Metaphor Nazi will catch you going: claiming an
agent/patient relation, where the agent is probably
(metaphorically) God (!), or whatever God is a metaphor for. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">And we have from Ecclesiastes (the verse in praise
of the Metaphor Nazi):</div>
<div class=""><a
href="http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/59.html#:~:text=If
there be nothing new (1): Compare Ecclesiastes 1.9,new thing
under the sun."" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/59.html#:~:text=If%20there%20be%20nothing%20new%20(1)%3A%20Compare%20Ecclesiastes%201.9,new%20thing%20under%20the%20sun.%22</a></div>
<div class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); orphans: 2;
widows: 2;" class="">Ecclesiastes 1.9: "The thing that hath
been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is
that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the
sun."</span></div>
<div class="">
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>To which the scientist (note small “s”) would like to
assert “the language of mechanics is not English; speaking it
is a new practice available to people to participate in”.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>But let Shakespeare have the last word:</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">If there be nothing new, but that which
is</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Hath been before, how are our brains
beguil'd,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Which, labouring for invention, bear
amiss</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">The second burthen of a former child!</span><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness: initial;"
class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">O, that record could with a backward
look,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Even of five hundred courses of the sun,</span><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness: initial;"
class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Show me your image in some antique book,</span><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness: initial;"
class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Since mind at first in character was
done!</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">That I might see what the old world could
say</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">To this composed wonder of your frame;</span><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness: initial;"
class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Whether we are mended, or whe'r better
they,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Or whether revolution be the same.</span><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness: initial;"
class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">O! sure I am, the wits of former days</span><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness: initial;"
class="">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">To subjects worse have given admiring
praise.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2;
text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class="">
</div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class="">Eric</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures:
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; text-decoration-thickness:
initial;" class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 9, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Prof David West
<<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
font-family: Arial;" class="">The ball accelerated is
clearly a metaphor as it implies that the ball is doing
a specific thing, that the ball has behavior and
probably volition. This is clearly not what you
literally mean.<br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
font-family: Arial;" class="">davew<br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
font-family: Arial;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">On Sat, May 8, 2021, at
4:57 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div class="">"The ball accelerated at approximately
32 feet per second squared at sea level in a
vacuum."<br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div class="">doesn't seem to be a metaphor to me.<br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div class="">---<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Frank C. Wimberly<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">140 Calle Ojo Feliz,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Santa Fe, NM 87505<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">505 670-9918<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Santa Fe, NM<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Sat, May 8,
2021, 3:07 PM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204,
204); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width:
1px; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""
lang="EN-US">
<div class="qt-m_-7272196601106796176WordSection1">
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Listen, Fella!<br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">It’s metaphors all the
way down!<br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">[shoe thrown]<br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">n<br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:
rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,76cwsDofsJZfToBxaQU6zR5cllp_k59wtln_iQtSrD8ozjyEN9kt0FPUs4RnuGnWMKFW-nOw3wJjMgAgCJAkSTlh3C3YKbI75yNyUMUvvw,,&typo=1"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:
rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<div style="border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225)
currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid
none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium;
border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat:
stretch; border-image-slice: 100%;
border-image-source: none; border-image-width:
1; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
<div class=""><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Gary
Schiltz<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
May 8, 2021 1:36 PM<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[FRIAM] Morphogenisis<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<div class="">
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">First of all, it's
just a metaphor (ducking, the shoe barely
missing my head) :-)<br class="">
</p>
<div class="">
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Second of all, that
description of animal development sure
sounds to me like "following a script". <br
class="">
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Sat, May 8, 2021
at 2:23 PM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color: currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204,
204); border-style: none none none solid;
border-width: medium medium medium 1pt;
border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat:
stretch; border-image-slice: 100%;
border-image-source: none;
border-image-width: 1; padding: 0in 0in 0in
6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">This struck me:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p
class="qt-m_-7272196601106796176gmail-m-6118501720637267473quotation">When
animals develop, they don’t follow a
script. Instead, responding to their
environment, the cells negotiate and
feel their way toward a final form. A
fertilized egg divides, and divides
again, creating a hollow ball of cells
called a blastula; genes instruct
these cells to release chemicals, and
other cells, reacting to those
chemical concentrations, decide to
migrate elsewhere or to develop into
specific types of tissue. Other
influences—oxygen, nutrients,
hormones, sometimes toxins—further
shape gestation.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/persuading-the-body-to-regenerate-its-limbs?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_050821&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bd678d924c17c104801f684&cndid=40835928&hasha=1dc6f15a30be2d4712fae5f0e5a9a679&hashb=5e4befc88214fadc869224d7cb34d55f51451bc7&hashc=0c6ef6b7bc8221288e1f4a4ca0116d78a21ebdbe47949488640c7c54c93120fb&esrc=AUTO_PRINT&utm_term=TNY_Daily"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/persuading-the-body-to-regenerate-its-limbs?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_050821&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bd678d924c17c104801f684&cndid=40835928&hasha=1dc6f15a30be2d4712fae5f0e5a9a679&hashb=5e4befc88214fadc869224d7cb34d55f51451bc7&hashc=0c6ef6b7bc8221288e1f4a4ca0116d78a21ebdbe47949488640c7c54c93120fb&esrc=AUTO_PRINT&utm_term=TNY_Daily</a><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">First, note the
reliance on psychological terms. This
is the sort of passage that would
stimulate my teasing Hywel with, “So
you see, Hywel, psychology really IS
the mother of all sciences.” And
don’t any of you DARE to come back at
me with, “It’s just a metaphor.” <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Second, which of
these two models encapsulates more
closely what you wizards mean by
computation. Is carrying out an
algorithm more like “computation” or
is “building a limb”? Is a
salamander’s limb “computed”? If so,
who computes it, or is that a
violation of the language of
computation. I know. Fools rush in
where wise men fear to tread.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Your loyal fool,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nic<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br
class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a
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class="">
</p>
<p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br class="">
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-.
.. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
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