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<p>Marcus -</p>
<p>Very good point and I understand/agree ... The "chaining" of
juniper to make (yet more) rangeland was just such an experiment
and on my father's own district he was very spare with fire
suppression, he did believe in as much "natural burn" as possible
(until it threatened a timber-sale!). I spent no end of weekends
driving up and hiking in to where a snag had been hit by lightning
and was alight to check to make sure it wasn't likely to trigger
any kind of major burn in the area, and usually it didn't warrant
any intervention if/when there were natural fuel breaks
uphill/downwind that kept it contained. He also gave ranchers
more leeway with grazing if they themselves would "experiment"
with different ideas about avoiding intense over-grazing with
careful management of water, salt, augmented feed, etc. He was
definitely always "experimenting" and I think even learning from
it *even* though by the time he was "done" he was DONE because the
integrated up "lessons learned" and cultural shifts that he wasn't
part of but had to respond to. He retired around 1980 just as the
first female regional forester became his boss's boss, a
coincidence but nevertheless difficult and auspicious for him. <br>
</p>
<p>My neoLuddite basis is driven somewhat by the extreme leverage
our techno-industrial reality represents. Up until the late 1990s
I might have sounded more like Pieter regarding "evidence for
climate change" and "technophilic optimism" in spite of working
closely *with* LANL climate scientists at the time. Between
being on the (very) wrong side of that one, and being a vegetarian
peacenik *supporting* Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD 1980-1990),
I have my own shame/grief to process, which like a former smoker
often leads to an acute judgemental view of those who haven't yet
"seen the light".</p>
<p>Following that theme, I believe the more toxic versions of
Politically Correct and Woke are roughly the same thing. My
father (again) quit smoking in his 40s (up to 3 packs a day) and
became a rabid anti-smoker (albeit polite in public about it). I
suspect those most vocal about hating the haters may well have
their own "hate problems". We now have 3 levels of indirection
with those who want to bully "the Woke" who are noted for
"bullying the Bullies" who of course will bully anything they want
to (including the Woke). Scissors, Paper Stone! Put that in
your iterated Prisoner's Dilemma and smoke it?<br>
</p>
<p>My recent focus on Global Endogenous Existential Threats (nod to
Merle) has made me aware of many factoids which support
(confirmation bias, many of them I'm sure) my chagrin over the
things I've thought were "good ideas" which in fact seem to be
part of our "race to the bottom" or "race off the end of
everything". It started with Climate/Biosphere challenges but
overlaps strongly into sociopoliticaleconomic systems. Our
global (and national) response to COVID, to the BLM protests
(black lives, not Cliven Bundy & Sons). There is *strong*
hysteresis in our global systems, and our activities have (long
since) become significant drivers and in general we (as
individuals, as national/global policy makers, as
techno-industrialists) tend to want to ignore (or more likely
game) that. See the Fossil Fuel Industry in the 60s looking
forward gleefully to an ice-free Arctic, generated by the product
of their profiteering... <br>
</p>
<p>(gra)mumble,</p>
<p> - Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal">We won’t realize anything unless the
experiments happen. We may not learn from experiments, but
that is a different issue than the need for the experiments.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Steve Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 25, 2021 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Drones to detect wildfires<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>My father dedicated his life to "forest management" as a
professional forester, trained in biology and range/timber
management. He retired "early" after 30 years somewhat in
disgust over the changing of aesthetics and perspectives of
the United States Forest Service. He was dedicated and loyal
to the spirit of Aldo Leopold and other early
conservationists. He spent multiple multi-week segments every
summer leading (most Zuni and Hopi native) fire-crews on the
West Coast trying ot protec homes and "valuable timber". We
lived on the edge of the first Wilderness (Gila) created (at
the behest of Aldo Leopold) for 2/3 of my growing up years.
My father died 10 years ago (Alzheimers), was cremated, and we
(illegall) spread his cremains in the heart of the Gila with a
minor amount of guilt as he was a (nearly) strict rule
follower (yet asked for this). Within the year, a serious
wildfire complex converged at almost the exact spot we
scattered him (woooOoooooo!).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Even my Trump-voting (2016) sister and husband are now
acknowledging that his life/profession were dedicated to a
project that was fundamentally "unwise". They *were* (for
the most part) doing the best they knew how. Most everything
they did (from stopping wildfires at the first opportunity) to
running dual bulldozers across landscapes with a chain between
them to clear the juniper trees from a landscape to allow more
grass (for cattle) to grow was "well intended", but it was
*range* and *timber* management not "grassland" and "forest"
management as they called it. The goal was to maximize the
"productivity" of the public lands under their management
(dept of Agriculture_. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM
dept of Interior) was know to be *worse* in the sense that
their rules on cattle and mining were much less careful of
protecting the landscape and biome. The National Parks were
derided by both the Forest Service and the BLM for being "much
too restrictive" (no "harvesting of resources"!!!!)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And yet NOW we realize how "unwise" all of that was. But in
the same breath we suggest that all of our exploitative
depradations of the planet's "resources" are necessary and
possibly "a really good thing"... and I am sure that in
another 20 or 50 years we will be lamenting *all* of the
things that today we are promoting wholeheartedly in the name
of "progress".
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>This is part of how I became a neo-Luddite.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>- Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/25/21 2:50 AM, Pieter Steenekamp
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let's hope they are a bit more wise in
managing the wildfires in the future than they were in the
20th century.<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/14/california-fire-suppression-forests-tinderbox"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/14/california-fire-suppression-forests-tinderbox</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-css-10j7zqa"><span class="gmail-css-o4cepu"><span
style="font-size:88.5pt;border:none windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in">B</span></span><span
class="gmail-css-10j7zqa1"><span style="border:none
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">efore this unprecedented
era of mega-blazes on the US west coast, California’s
forests had a canny, ingenious way of avoiding
destructive worst-case forest fire scenarios. By
periodically removing the grasses, shrubs and young
trees – known as the forest understory – <a
href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/california"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#CB4700">California</span></a> avoided
fires growing to destructive intensities before the
20th century. The way this was done? Fire.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-css-10j7zqa"
style="box-sizing:inherit;margin:1rem;font-variant-ligatures:common-ligatures;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.0625rem">Every
five to 15 years, groundfires would burn through the
forest, killing off the undergrowth on a regular basis,
thus removing the material that can act as tinder and
kindle fires. Such groundfires were sparked by lightning
or by indigenous people who used sophisticated burning
practices to facilitate crop growing and hunting. Because
the fires occurred frequently, the understory rarely had
time to build up enough combustible material for the fires
to reach the canopies of the mature trees – which is what
causes the large, devastating fires we are seeing now. As
a result, overstory trees might get wounded by the
groundfires, but they would rarely get killed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 25 May 2021 at 10:22, Jochen
Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Due to climate change there will
be more and more wildfires in California, Arizona
and New Mexico in the coming years. Drones could
help to detect wildfires early.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/remote-sensing/drones-sensors-wildfire-detection"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/remote-sensing/drones-sensors-wildfire-detection</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-J.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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