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<p>I think you might be correct Pieter... that attitudes are
changing "fast". I also sympathize with your references to
"woke" culture somehow being it's own toxicity. I'm a big fan of
multicultural (including gender/gender-identity, etc) diversity
and believe that our modern global transportation and
communications technologies (mostly about 100 years old) has
exposed us to much more diversity than ever before and it has been
hard to take in. "Wokeness" IMO is a reaction to the fear and
intolerences that are a reaction to having to take in more and
more and more diversity of human identity and nature than ever
before.<br>
</p>
<p>I have told bits of my own story. I was rarely overtly usurious
(by my own standards) in my youth (with some notable exceptions),
but as I experienced more and became more and more of a systems
thinker in general and as complex systems science matured in front
of me, I became more and more aware that a breakneck forward pell
mell tumble of "human progress" seems to inevitably lead to
unintended consequences of greater and greater magnitude. As our
leverage grows geometrically/exponentially, so do the
consequences, compounded by mass transportation of materials and
energy such that *we* don't experience the consequences of our
excesses personally. Somebody somewhere else lives
downstream/wind from the source of externalized costs and a PR
firm sits in the middle "messaging" whatever hints of those
consequences get back to the *consumers* sucking those goods and
services through those long pipes.</p>
<p>I know I often (always?) vilify "human progress" as if it were
fundamentally evil. What I am really railing against is the
(deliberate) conflation between the betterment of circumstances
for any individual, group, or expanse of humanity and the
exploitation and abuse of the remainder of the world (non-human,
non-first-world, non-middle-upper class, etc.). <br>
</p>
<p>I am glad you called out the 163k year old "modern human"
artifacts and made the point (I think) that there is something
fundamental in our nature/circumstances that has lead us to be an
"invasive species" no matter where we have immigrated. I know
many feel that this kind of acknowledgement (I'm thinking Proud
Boys and similar) is some kind of "self-hatred", that we should
revel in our ability to "pave the planet" and "dominate the
other", etc. I have heard that the theory that the
post-pleistocene megafauna collapse throughout the northern
hemisphere (Eurasia and America) as (modern) humans arrived is
maybe not as cut and dried an example of our direct or even
first-order indirect arrival (that we neither killed them all nor
did we out-compete them) but there is a strong correlation there,
as there is with the end of the Neanderthal who apparently had
lived in what appears to be homeostasis with the ecological niche
they found/created when *they* arrived in Europe. This is all
pop-science anecdotal confirmation-bias talk. <br>
</p>
<p>Someone who has honestly studied these overlapping domains may be
able to poke holes in the details but maybe not in the general
gist of my speculation that (modern) humans are very much
"invasive species", not only opportunistic in slipping into every
niche we find, but wedging them open wider to make them more
comfortable for ourselves. From a strict Darwinian fitness
perspective, this seems like a "very good thing". <br>
</p>
<p>It may be nostalgic of me to think that humans would be healthier
and happier in a healthy biosphere rich in diversity of plants
and creatures that were here when we arrived. The Post/Trans
humanists, the progress-at-any-cost, the let's terraform Mars (and
the Asteriod belt and Venus and the moons and rings of the gas
giants), the radical technophiles *may be right* that our insanely
clever minds and extended phenotype of an industrial economy (on
bio-nano-macro-engineering) can outrun the biosphere collapsing
behind us in the wake of our "progress". We (sort of) have so
far... the lifespans (and quality of life) dips each
technological leap forward has offered us (agrarian monocropping
gave us ubiquitous calories but reduced nutrition, the early
coal-fueled industrial era gave us quality consumer products and
particulate-filled smog-encrusted cities in Europe), modern
industry (better living through chemistry) gave us modern miracle
products and Superfund sites up and down the east coast and rust
belt. <br>
</p>
<p>To the extent that we don't acknowledge the extent of the
potential consequences of our actions (exported to someone else's
backyard, the third world, the oceans the atmosphere, the polar
caps, our children's futures) I don't see *how* we can sustain the
rate of exploitation we are clearly capable of. Climate
Scientists (except for a few fringe ringers from industry) agree
that we are well on our way to some huge (and potentially
devastating) effects, yet I'd claim that easily half of the first
world doesn't believe (or care?) about this likelihood and the
bulk of the third world either doesn't even know what that means
or feels entirely helpless to do anything but hunker down and hope
the disruption in weather patterns actually improves their
regional conditions rather than forcing them to become refugees to
hostile first world countries. <br>
</p>
<p>Deferring to your and Marcus' and other's optimism that we can
and will outrun the consequences (or perhaps Marcus' fatalism that
we as a species are "long of tooth" and perhaps deserve to bring
the house down on our own heads?), I can *hope* that we will find
a phase change in the collective imaginarium around "human
progress" not requiring that we continue to radically aberrate the
current homeostasis of the biosphere. I also believe that mother
Gaia is a complex adaptive system of which we (and all our radical
cleverness and extreme technical leverage) is just a part of and
in a few centuries may well be settling back into a "new normal"
where any remaining humans are either encysted in bubbles to
protect ourselves from this "new normal" (and it from us!) or we
will have "cooled our jets" enough that the "new normal" is close
enough to what we (and other extant life forms) have evolved under
to survive *without* hyper-technology to mediate for us.</p>
<p><rant off></p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/26/21 1:00 AM, Pieter Steenekamp
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPerSOKfLugSLspfvYDD-SK5bzHsCdYGgbD7vvucbaxsR-m9iw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I don't question the historical link between
human progress and hurting the environment. Within walking
distance from where I live there is a cave where archaeologists
led by Curtis Marean found evidence of modern humans that lived
162 000 years ago. Curtis opines that since then modern humans
behaved like an invasive species, causing serious harm to the
environment wherever they went. My point is that there is
evidence that this human progress/harming the environment link
has been happening ever since modern humans set their feet on
mother earth and it's still happening. <br>
<br>
But my subjective observation is that the attitude of <b><i><font
face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">pedal-to-the-medal,
drill-baby-drill, burn baby burn, gangway, don't look down
(or back)! </font></i></b>is changing and it's changing
very fast. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I compare the attitude of
people when I was young to now, I observe a big difference.
There is now a very widespread concern for the environment that
was absent when I was young. I salute the
environmental activists, they have done a great job and are
still doing a great job in changing the moral values of society
to be against hurting the environment.<br>
<br>
Personally I am both enthusiastically for human progress and
totally against hurting the environment. <br>
<br>
I have open questions:<br>
1. Admitting that progress hurt the environment in the past, is
there reason to believe that it's impossible to have future
progress without hurting the environment?<br>
2. Provided it's possible without hurting the environment, is
there anything wrong with human progress? </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 26 May 2021 at 03:45,
Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>As Stephen already knows well, *these* were in all of the
lookout towers before modern tech finally meant humans
didn't need to man them 24/7 during fire season. A
precision, calibrated "lazy susan" with a map and a
"protractor" for measuring altitude angle to a fire. The
Simtable work Stephen describes is a highly efficient and
accurate replacement for this art/skill (and beyond), even
before the citizen-mobile cameras are integrated.<br>
</p>
<p><img
src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Osborne-cw-01.jpg/220px-Osborne-cw-01.jpg"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="517" height="390"></p>
<p><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Fire_Finder"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Fire_Finder</a></p>
<p> I knew quite a few permanent and short term (usually
college summer students) fire lookouts in my time. The
permanent folks got to know their territory like the back
of their hands, as well as the other lookouts and the
local fire crews. My dad had a fire-radio in our dining
room that ran 24/7 during fire season as well. It would
have been fascinating if it hadn't been so "normal" at the
time.</p>
<p>I very much appreciate Stephen's Schtick about fires (and
other natural threats/disasters) being much more
frightening/threatening when you don't know where they are
and what they are doing, and that good (collective)
awareness is the first step toward "managing" not only the
wildfires themselves, but the people and property they
threaten. <br>
</p>
<p>The same thing goes for "managing" nature in a broader
sense. The more we know what is actually happening in the
short and long term, the better chance we have of doing
something clever, or ... wait for it... maybe even
"wise"? What Merle and I are vying for is an
appreciation that this ~10,000 year old experiment of
humans manipulating the biosphere with significant (and
exponentially growing?) leverage has not gone well (for
the biosphere). While First World peoples, especially in
the 1% (or even 50%) wealth category, it all might seem
plenty peachy, but if you ask the myriad folks (and
non-human folks) that are enduring the unintended
(usually) consequences of our arrogant mucking about, they
might not be so proud of what we have done. <br>
</p>
<p>When the chickens (refugees) come home to roost (Europe
dealing with those displaced by climate change and war
throughout north Africa and the Middle east, the US
dealing with Central American refugees, etc ad nauseum)
some of us struggle to figure out how to accommodate them
without giving up "too much" while others simply identify
them as a dangerous, foreign, plague to be repelled or
exterminated. Whether the former OR the latter is even
possible is up in the air, but in the meantime, we
continue to either stick with "business as usual" or "rush
forward to the next grande technological (and highly
profitable for *someone*) fix without honestly considering
the meta-problem of whether we really *learn* anything
from our mistakes (experiments) except how to be more
efficient at executing the narrow goals we set for
ourselves. Optimization run amok? <br>
</p>
<p>I shouldn't be so negative... I know *many* people are
honestly trying to expand their awareness to include that
which they were not previously aware of, not just double
down on being more effective at whatever they set out to
be effective at earlier in life (as individuals or as
cultures).</p>
<p>I accept (reluctantly) the truism that "the only way out
is through". There is huge momentum in the human
project, or more to the point, the Homo Faber project.
Man the Maker. <i>Sapiens</i> means knowledgeable or
wise, I do believe we've done a fair job of living up to
the former, I think the latter is very much a work in
progress. <br>
</p>
<p>Meanwhile, pedal-to-the-medal, drill-baby-drill, burn
baby burn, gangway, don't look down (or back)!</p>
<div>On 5/25/21 12:22 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"> I don't think drones aren't an
efficient choice for detection. Stationary PTZ cameras
on ridgetops and citizen phone camera reporting along
with 911 calls are soon enough. Where drones are
valuable preliminary mapping to fill in gaps of existing
camera viewsheds to get an early sizeup.<br>
<br>
We are working with <a
href="http://www.alertwildfire.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.alertwildfire.org</a> to
calibrate their 1000 cameras on the ridgetops in the 5
western states of CA, OR, WA, ID and NV. Our bit is
solving for camera pose based on observations of stars
to solve for the 9 degrees of freedom of a camera (x, y,
z, yaw, pitch, roll, horiz field of view, vert field of
view and lens distortion)<br>
<br>
You can see a map of the cameras that we have robotic
control of hear with historical imagery:<br>
<a
href="http://www.alertwildfire.org/tahoe/index.html?camera=Axis-SodaRidge1&v=7a7f1c3"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.alertwildfire.org/tahoe/index.html?camera=Axis-SodaRidge1&v=7a7f1c3</a><br>
<br>
Once a camera is calibrated each pixel maps to a
lat/long if it intersects the terrain or triangulating
3D points with multiple cameras for sky-based features. <br>
<br>
You can see how we detect locations of fire starts after
lightning strikes on the LNU Complex last summer in
Sonama here:<br>
<a href="https://youtu.be/oVAwvs4k1n0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://youtu.be/oVAwvs4k1n0</a><br>
<br>
All compute and modeling/sim is in the browser with the
camera projections using WebGL and rendering to 3D
terrain.<br>
<br>
And how we track perimeters on this example Adams Fire
here:<br>
<a href="https://youtu.be/lP7-UhZQ4IY"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://youtu.be/lP7-UhZQ4IY</a><br>
<br>
And here is some live AI looking for smoke in Sonoma
that we then map:<br>
<a href="https://fire.aiir.ai/sonoma" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://fire.aiir.ai/sonoma</a><br>
<br>
We can also calibrate ad hoc imagery coming from
citizens based on common features in already calibrated
images or by geopoints or the stars. Here's an example
on the Maria Fire where we took imagery from Twitter
from a private pilot and a second imager from citizen
near the freeway.<br>
<a href="https://youtu.be/aJpgDzFhXng"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://youtu.be/aJpgDzFhXng</a><br>
<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________________________________<br>
<a
href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Stephen.Guerin@Simtable.com</a>
<div>CEO, Simtable <a
href="http://www.simtable.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.simtable.com</a><br>
<div>1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM
87505
<div>
<div>office: (505)995-0206 <span
style="font-size:12.8px">mobile:
(505)577-5828</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">twitter:
@simtable</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><a
href="http://zoom.com/j/5055775828" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">z</a><a
href="http://oom.simtable.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">oom.simtable.com</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 25, 2021
at 11:54 AM Pieter Steenekamp <<a
href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">from wikipedia <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>Synthetic
biology</b> (<b>SynBio</b>) is a
multidisciplinary area of research that seeks to
create new biological parts, devices, and
systems, or to redesign systems that are already
found in nature.</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">It
is a branch of science that encompasses a broad
range of methodologies from various disciplines,
such as <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotechnology"
title="Biotechnology"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">biotechnology</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering" title="Genetic
engineering"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">genetic
engineering</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_biology"
title="Molecular biology"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">molecular
biology</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_engineering"
title=""
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">molecular
engineering</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_biology"
title=""
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">systems
biology</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_lipid_bilayer"
title="Model lipid bilayer"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">membrane
science</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophysics"
title="Biological systems"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">biophysics</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_engineering"
title="Biological engineering"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chemical
and biological engineering</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering"
title="Electrical engineering"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">electrical
and computer engineering</a>, <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_engineering"
title="Control engineering"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">control
engineering</a> and <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_biology"
title="Molecular engineering"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">evolutionary
biology</a>.</p>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Due
to more powerful <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering"
title="Genetic engineering"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">genetic
engineering</a> capabilities and decreased DNA
synthesis and <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_sequencing"
title="DNA sequencing"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sequencing
costs</a>, the field of synthetic biology is
rapidly growing. In 2016, more than 350
companies across 40 countries were actively
engaged in synthetic biology applications; all
these companies had an estimated net worth of
$3.9 billion in the global market.<sup
id="gmail-m_-1019276334600484205gmail-m_5224107263918019086gmail-cite_ref-1"
style="line-height:1;unicode-bidi:isolate;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology#cite_note-1"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[1]</a></sup></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 25 May
2021 at 19:49, Merle Lefkoff <<a
href="mailto:merlelefkoff@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">merlelefkoff@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Marcus,
I don't understand your term "synthetic
biology."</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May
25, 2021 at 10:24 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So we move from
chemical engineering to synthetic
biology. There will always be
mistakes. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Merle Lefkoff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 25, 2021
10:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Drones to
detect wildfires</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Marcus,
we've been "experimenting" with
our terrestrial biome for at least
10-12,000 years (when the first
spade hit the ground). The time
for more experiments is
over....unless they are
experiments that help us
understand even more deeply how to
restore the Mycelium networks so
that the fungi can solve our
climate change challenge. This is
perhaps the most important task
that will save us from
extinction. See Merlin
Sheldrake's book, "Entangled Life"
for explanation.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, May 25,
2021 at 8:41 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We won’t
realize anything unless the
experiments happen. We may not
learn from experiments, but that
is a different issue than the
need for the experiments. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid
none
none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve
Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May
25, 2021 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
Drones to detect wildfires</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>My father dedicated his life to
"forest management" as a
professional forester, trained
in biology and range/timber
management. He retired "early"
after 30 years somewhat in
disgust over the changing of
aesthetics and perspectives of
the United States Forest
Service. He was dedicated and
loyal to the spirit of Aldo
Leopold and other early
conservationists. He spent
multiple multi-week segments
every summer leading (most Zuni
and Hopi native) fire-crews on
the West Coast trying ot protec
homes and "valuable timber". We
lived on the edge of the first
Wilderness (Gila) created (at
the behest of Aldo Leopold) for
2/3 of my growing up years. My
father died 10 years ago
(Alzheimers), was cremated, and
we (illegall) spread his
cremains in the heart of the
Gila with a minor amount of
guilt as he was a (nearly)
strict rule follower (yet asked
for this). Within the year, a
serious wildfire complex
converged at almost the exact
spot we scattered him
(woooOoooooo!). </p>
<p>Even my Trump-voting (2016)
sister and husband are now
acknowledging that his
life/profession were dedicated
to a project that was
fundamentally "unwise". They
*were* (for the most part) doing
the best they knew how. Most
everything they did (from
stopping wildfires at the first
opportunity) to running dual
bulldozers across landscapes
with a chain between them to
clear the juniper trees from a
landscape to allow more grass
(for cattle) to grow was "well
intended", but it was *range*
and *timber* management not
"grassland" and "forest"
management as they called it.
The goal was to maximize the
"productivity" of the public
lands under their management
(dept of Agriculture_. The
Bureau of Land Management (BLM
dept of Interior) was know to be
*worse* in the sense that their
rules on cattle and mining were
much less careful of protecting
the landscape and biome. The
National Parks were derided by
both the Forest Service and the
BLM for being "much too
restrictive" (no "harvesting of
resources"!!!!) </p>
<p>And yet NOW we realize how
"unwise" all of that was. But
in the same breath we suggest
that all of our exploitative
depradations of the planet's
"resources" are necessary and
possibly "a really good
thing"... and I am sure that in
another 20 or 50 years we will
be lamenting *all* of the things
that today we are promoting
wholeheartedly in the name of
"progress". </p>
<p>This is part of how I became a
neo-Luddite.</p>
<p>- Steve</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/25/21
2:50 AM, Pieter Steenekamp
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">Let's
hope they are a bit more
wise in managing the
wildfires in the future than
they were in the
20th century.<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/14/california-fire-suppression-forests-tinderbox"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/14/california-fire-suppression-forests-tinderbox</a><br>
<br>
</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:88.5pt;border:1pt
none
windowtext;padding:0in">B</span><span
style="border:1pt none
windowtext;padding:0in">efore
this unprecedented era of
mega-blazes on the US west
coast, California’s
forests had a canny,
ingenious way of avoiding
destructive worst-case
forest fire scenarios. By
periodically removing the
grasses, shrubs and young
trees – known as the
forest understory – <a
href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/california"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(203,71,0)">California</span></a> avoided fires growing
to destructive intensities
before the 20th century.
The way this was done?
Fire.</span></p>
<p
style="box-sizing:inherit;margin:1rem;font-variant-ligatures:common-ligatures;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.0625rem">Every
five to 15 years,
groundfires would burn
through the forest, killing
off the undergrowth on a
regular basis, thus removing
the material that can act as
tinder and kindle fires.
Such groundfires were
sparked by lightning or by
indigenous people who used
sophisticated burning
practices to facilitate crop
growing and hunting. Because
the fires occurred
frequently, the understory
rarely had time to build up
enough combustible material
for the fires to reach the
canopies of the mature trees
– which is what causes the
large, devastating fires we
are seeing now. As a result,
overstory trees might get
wounded by the groundfires,
but they would rarely get
killed.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue,
25 May 2021 at 10:22,
Jochen Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in
5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Due
to climate change
there will be more and
more wildfires in
California, Arizona
and New Mexico in the
coming years. Drones
could help to detect
wildfires early.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/remote-sensing/drones-sensors-wildfire-detection"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/remote-sensing/drones-sensors-wildfire-detection</a>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-J.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Merle
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Center for Emergent
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<a
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<p class="MsoNormal">Santa
Fe, New Mexico, USA</p>
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mobile: (303)
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<div>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br>
Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br>
<a
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<div>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA</div>
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