<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">The problem is the term " progress."<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">First, progress implies a goal state,as in progress towards what?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">The second is teasing out a thread, a sequence of a single factor in a complex data set, and deciding that an increase in the measured value of that factor is what defines progress. [The term progress itself biases against looking for a decrease in some measured factor.]<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">For example: We could look at human beings in the U.S. from 1776 to today as a sequence of states. We could then look at the state and pick a variable that changes — increases — in each successive state. If the variable we pick is 'average lifespan' then we might be tempted to say that we have progressed. But if we picked the variable 'average BMI index' then it becomes problematic as to whether or not we can claim massive obesity is "progress."<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">A third issue is obtaining any kind of consensus as to which variables we should pick to measure progress. Kilotons of nuclear arsenals? Petabytes of video on Pornhub? Tons of food waste from restaurants per day? Average wheat yield in Kansas per year? Number of pure electric cars per capita?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Wed, May 26, 2021, at 1:00 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div dir="ltr"><div>I don't question the historical link between human progress and hurting the environment. Within walking distance from where I live there is a cave where archaeologists led by Curtis Marean found evidence of modern humans that lived 162 000 years ago. Curtis opines that since then modern humans behaved like an invasive species, causing serious harm to the environment wherever they went. My point is that there is evidence that this human progress/harming the environment link has been happening ever since modern humans set their feet on mother earth and it's still happening. <br></div><div><br></div><div>But my subjective observation is that the attitude of <b><i><span class="font" style="font-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;">pedal-to-the-medal, drill-baby-drill, burn baby burn, gangway, don't look down (or back)! </span></i></b>is changing and it's changing very fast. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I compare the attitude of people when I was young to now, I observe a big difference. There is now a very widespread concern for the environment that was absent when I was young. I salute the environmental activists, they have done a great job and are still doing a great job in changing the moral values of society to be against hurting the environment.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Personally I am both enthusiastically for human progress and totally against hurting the environment. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I have open questions:<br></div><div>1. Admitting that progress hurt the environment in the past, is there reason to believe that it's impossible to have future progress without hurting the environment?<br></div><div>2. Provided it's possible without hurting the environment, is there anything wrong with human progress? <br></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Wed, 26 May 2021 at 03:45, Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div><p>As Stephen already knows well, *these* were in all of the lookout
towers before modern tech finally meant humans didn't need to man
them 24/7 during fire season. A precision, calibrated "lazy
susan" with a map and a "protractor" for measuring altitude angle
to a fire. The Simtable work Stephen describes is a highly
efficient and accurate replacement for this art/skill (and
beyond), even before the citizen-mobile cameras are integrated.<br></p><p><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Osborne-cw-01.jpg/220px-Osborne-cw-01.jpg" width="517" height="390"><br></p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Fire_Finder" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Fire_Finder</a><br></p><p> I knew quite a few permanent and short term (usually college
summer students) fire lookouts in my time. The permanent folks
got to know their territory like the back of their hands, as well
as the other lookouts and the local fire crews. My dad had a
fire-radio in our dining room that ran 24/7 during fire season as
well. It would have been fascinating if it hadn't been so
"normal" at the time.<br></p><p>I very much appreciate Stephen's Schtick about fires (and other
natural threats/disasters) being much more frightening/threatening
when you don't know where they are and what they are doing, and
that good (collective) awareness is the first step toward
"managing" not only the wildfires themselves, but the people and
property they threaten. <br></p><p>The same thing goes for "managing" nature in a broader sense.
The more we know what is actually happening in the short and long
term, the better chance we have of doing something clever, or ...
wait for it... maybe even "wise"? What Merle and I are vying
for is an appreciation that this ~10,000 year old experiment of
humans manipulating the biosphere with significant (and
exponentially growing?) leverage has not gone well (for the
biosphere). While First World peoples, especially in the 1% (or
even 50%) wealth category, it all might seem plenty peachy, but if
you ask the myriad folks (and non-human folks) that are enduring
the unintended (usually) consequences of our arrogant mucking
about, they might not be so proud of what we have done. <br></p><p>When the chickens (refugees) come home to roost (Europe dealing
with those displaced by climate change and war throughout north
Africa and the Middle east, the US dealing with Central American
refugees, etc ad nauseum) some of us struggle to figure out how to
accommodate them without giving up "too much" while others simply
identify them as a dangerous, foreign, plague to be repelled or
exterminated. Whether the former OR the latter is even possible
is up in the air, but in the meantime, we continue to either stick
with "business as usual" or "rush forward to the next grande
technological (and highly profitable for *someone*) fix without
honestly considering the meta-problem of whether we really *learn*
anything from our mistakes (experiments) except how to be more
efficient at executing the narrow goals we set for ourselves.
Optimization run amok? <br></p><p>I shouldn't be so negative... I know *many* people are honestly
trying to expand their awareness to include that which they were
not previously aware of, not just double down on being more
effective at whatever they set out to be effective at earlier in
life (as individuals or as cultures).<br></p><p>I accept (reluctantly) the truism that "the only way out is
through". There is huge momentum in the human project, or more
to the point, the Homo Faber project. Man the Maker. <i>Sapiens</i> means knowledgeable or wise, I do believe we've done a fair job
of living up to the former, I think the latter is very much a
work in progress. <br></p><p>Meanwhile, pedal-to-the-medal, drill-baby-drill, burn baby burn,
gangway, don't look down (or back)!<br></p><div>On 5/25/21 12:22 PM, Stephen Guerin
wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div> I don't think drones aren't an efficient choice
for detection. Stationary PTZ cameras on ridgetops and citizen
phone camera reporting along with 911 calls are soon enough.
Where drones are valuable preliminary mapping to fill in gaps of
existing camera viewsheds to get an early sizeup.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> We are working with <a href="http://www.alertwildfire.org" target="_blank">www.alertwildfire.org</a> to calibrate
their 1000 cameras on the ridgetops in the 5 western states of
CA, OR, WA, ID and NV. Our bit is solving for camera pose based
on observations of stars to solve for the 9 degrees of freedom
of a camera (x, y, z, yaw, pitch, roll, horiz field of view,
vert field of view and lens distortion)<br></div><div> <br></div><div> You can see a map of the cameras that we have robotic control of
hear with historical imagery:<br></div><div> <a href="http://www.alertwildfire.org/tahoe/index.html?camera=Axis-SodaRidge1&v=7a7f1c3" target="_blank">http://www.alertwildfire.org/tahoe/index.html?camera=Axis-SodaRidge1&v=7a7f1c3</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Once a camera is calibrated each pixel maps to a lat/long if it
intersects the terrain or triangulating 3D points with multiple
cameras for sky-based features. <br></div><div> <br></div><div> You can see how we detect locations of fire starts after
lightning strikes on the LNU Complex last summer in Sonama here:<br></div><div> <a href="https://youtu.be/oVAwvs4k1n0" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/oVAwvs4k1n0</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> All compute and modeling/sim is in the browser with the camera
projections using WebGL and rendering to 3D terrain.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> And how we track perimeters on this example Adams Fire here:<br></div><div> <a href="https://youtu.be/lP7-UhZQ4IY" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/lP7-UhZQ4IY</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> And here is some live AI looking for smoke in Sonoma that we
then map:<br></div><div> <a href="https://fire.aiir.ai/sonoma" target="_blank">https://fire.aiir.ai/sonoma</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> We can also calibrate ad hoc imagery coming from citizens based
on common features in already calibrated images or by geopoints
or the stars. Here's an example on the Maria Fire where we took
imagery from Twitter from a private pilot and a second imager
from citizen near the freeway.<br></div><div> <a href="https://youtu.be/aJpgDzFhXng" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/aJpgDzFhXng</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>_______________________________________________________________________<br></div><div> <a href="mailto:stephen.guerin@simtable.com" target="_blank">Stephen.Guerin@Simtable.com</a> <br></div><div><div>CEO, Simtable <a href="http://www.simtable.com/" target="_blank">http://www.simtable.com</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div><div>1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505 <br></div><div><div>office: (505)995-0206 <span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:12.8px;">mobile:
(505)577-5828</span></span><br></div><div><span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:12.8px;">twitter:
@simtable</span></span><br></div><div><span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:12.8px;"><a href="http://zoom.com/j/5055775828" target="_blank">z</a><a href="http://oom.simtable.com" target="_blank">oom.simtable.com</a></span></span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:54
AM Pieter Steenekamp <<a href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za" target="_blank">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>from wikipedia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology</a> <br></div><div><br></div><div><p style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;color:rgb(32, 33, 34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;"><b>Synthetic
biology</b> (<b>SynBio</b>) is a multidisciplinary
area of research that seeks to create new biological
parts, devices, and systems, or to redesign systems that
are already found in nature.<br></p><p style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;color:rgb(32, 33, 34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;">It
is a branch of science that encompasses a broad range of
methodologies from various disciplines, such as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotechnology" title="Biotechnology" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">biotechnology</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering" title="Genetic
engineering" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">genetic
engineering</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_biology" title="Molecular biology" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">molecular
biology</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_engineering" title="" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">molecular
engineering</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_biology" title="" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">systems biology</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_lipid_bilayer" title="Model
lipid bilayer" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">membrane
science</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophysics" title="Biological systems" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">biophysics</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_engineering" title="Biological engineering" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">chemical and
biological engineering</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering" title="Electrical engineering" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">electrical and
computer engineering</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_engineering" title="Control engineering" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">control
engineering</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_biology" title="Molecular engineering" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">evolutionary
biology</a>.<br></p><p style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0.5em;margin-left:0px;color:rgb(32, 33, 34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;">Due
to more powerful <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering" title="Genetic engineering" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">genetic
engineering</a> capabilities and decreased DNA
synthesis and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_sequencing" title="DNA sequencing" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">sequencing
costs</a>, the field of synthetic biology is rapidly
growing. In 2016, more than 350 companies across 40
countries were actively engaged in synthetic biology
applications; all these companies had an estimated net
worth of $3.9 billion in the global market.<sup id="qt-gmail-m_-1019276334600484205gmail-m_5224107263918019086gmail-cite_ref-1" style="line-height:1;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology#cite_note-1" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6, 69, 173);background-color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%;background-repeat:repeat;background-attachment:scroll;background-image:none;background-size:auto;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;" target="_blank">[1]</a></sup><br></p></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Tue, 25 May 2021 at
19:49, Merle Lefkoff <<a href="mailto:merlelefkoff@gmail.com" target="_blank">merlelefkoff@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="qt-gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;">Marcus, I don't
understand your term "synthetic biology."<br></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Tue, May 25, 2021
at 10:24 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div lang="EN-US"><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">So we move from chemical
engineering to synthetic biology. There will
always be mistakes. <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div style="border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Merle Lefkoff<br></div><div> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:05 AM<br></div><div> <b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Drones to detect
wildfires<br></div><p></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Marcus,
we've been "experimenting" with our
terrestrial biome for at least 10-12,000
years (when the first spade hit the
ground). The time for more experiments is
over....unless they are experiments
that help us understand even more deeply
how to restore the Mycelium networks so
that the fungi can solve our climate
change challenge. This is perhaps the
most important task that will save us from
extinction. See Merlin Sheldrake's book,
"Entangled Life" for explanation.</span></span><br></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Tue, May 25, 2021 at
8:41 AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;"><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">We won’t realize
anything unless the experiments happen.
We may not learn from experiments, but
that is a different issue than the need
for the experiments. <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div style="border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br></div><div> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 25, 2021
7:46 AM<br></div><div> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a><br></div><div> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Drones
to detect wildfires<br></div><p></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p>My father dedicated his life to "forest
management" as a professional forester,
trained in biology and range/timber
management. He retired "early" after
30 years somewhat in disgust over the
changing of aesthetics and perspectives
of the United States Forest Service.
He was dedicated and loyal to the spirit
of Aldo Leopold and other early
conservationists. He spent multiple
multi-week segments every summer leading
(most Zuni and Hopi native) fire-crews
on the West Coast trying ot protec homes
and "valuable timber". We lived on the
edge of the first Wilderness (Gila)
created (at the behest of Aldo Leopold)
for 2/3 of my growing up years. My
father died 10 years ago (Alzheimers),
was cremated, and we (illegall) spread
his cremains in the heart of the Gila
with a minor amount of guilt as he was a
(nearly) strict rule follower (yet asked
for this). Within the year, a serious
wildfire complex converged at almost the
exact spot we scattered him
(woooOoooooo!). <br></p><p>Even my Trump-voting (2016) sister and
husband are now acknowledging that his
life/profession were dedicated to a
project that was fundamentally
"unwise". They *were* (for the most
part) doing the best they knew how.
Most everything they did (from stopping
wildfires at the first opportunity) to
running dual bulldozers across
landscapes with a chain between them to
clear the juniper trees from a landscape
to allow more grass (for cattle) to grow
was "well intended", but it was *range*
and *timber* management not "grassland"
and "forest" management as they called
it. The goal was to maximize the
"productivity" of the public lands under
their management (dept of
Agriculture_. The Bureau of Land
Management (BLM dept of Interior) was
know to be *worse* in the sense that
their rules on cattle and mining were
much less careful of protecting the
landscape and biome. The National
Parks were derided by both the Forest
Service and the BLM for being "much too
restrictive" (no "harvesting of
resources"!!!!)<br></p><p>And yet NOW we realize how "unwise" all
of that was. But in the same breath we
suggest that all of our exploitative
depradations of the planet's "resources"
are necessary and possibly "a really
good thing"... and I am sure that in
another 20 or 50 years we will be
lamenting *all* of the things that today
we are promoting wholeheartedly in the
name of "progress". <br></p><p>This is part of how I became a
neo-Luddite.<br></p><p>- Steve<br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On 5/25/21 2:50 AM,
Pieter Steenekamp wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;"></p><div>Let's
hope they are a bit more wise in
managing the wildfires in the future
than they were in the 20th century.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/14/california-fire-suppression-forests-tinderbox" target="_blank">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/14/california-fire-suppression-forests-tinderbox</a><br></div><div> <br></div><p></p><p><span style="border-top-color:windowtext;border-top-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-right-color:windowtext;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:1pt;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><span class="size" style="font-size:88.5pt;">B</span></span><span style="border-top-color:windowtext;border-top-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-right-color:windowtext;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:windowtext;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:1pt;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;">efore this
unprecedented era of mega-blazes
on the US west coast, California’s
forests had a canny, ingenious way
of avoiding destructive worst-case
forest fire scenarios. By
periodically removing the grasses,
shrubs and young trees – known as
the forest understory – <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/california" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(203, 71, 0);">California</span></a> avoided
fires growing to destructive
intensities before the 20th
century. The way this was done?
Fire.</span><br></p><p style="box-sizing:inherit;margin-top:1rem;margin-right:1rem;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-left:1rem;font-variant-ligatures:common-ligatures;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1.0625rem;">Every
five to 15 years, groundfires would
burn through the forest, killing off
the undergrowth on a regular basis,
thus removing the material that can
act as tinder and kindle fires. Such
groundfires were sparked by
lightning or by indigenous people
who used sophisticated burning
practices to facilitate crop growing
and hunting. Because the fires
occurred frequently, the understory
rarely had time to build up enough
combustible material for the fires
to reach the canopies of the mature
trees – which is what causes the
large, devastating fires we are
seeing now. As a result, overstory
trees might get wounded by the
groundfires, but they would rarely
get killed.<br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Tue, 25 May
2021 at 10:22, Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net" target="_blank">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt;margin-left:4.8pt;"><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Due to
climate change there will be
more and more wildfires in
California, Arizona and New
Mexico in the coming years.
Drones could help to detect
wildfires early.<br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/remote-sensing/drones-sensors-wildfire-detection" target="_blank">https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/remote-sensing/drones-sensors-wildfire-detection</a><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">-J.<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div>- .... . -..-.
. -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... .
.-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank"> bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank"> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><p></p></blockquote></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;"> <br></p><pre>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></pre><pre>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></pre><pre>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></pre><pre>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></pre><pre>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></pre><pre>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></pre></blockquote></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -..
-..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank"> bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank"> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><p></p></blockquote></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">--<br></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div>Merle
Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br></div><div> Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br></div><div> <a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a><br></div><p></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Santa Fe,
New Mexico, USA<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><div>mobile: (303) 859-5609<br></div><div> skype: merle.lelfkoff2<br></div><p></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">twitter:
@merle110<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-.
.<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>-- <br></div><div> <br></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br></div><div> Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br></div><div> <a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a><br></div></div><div>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>mobile: (303) 859-5609<br></div><div> skype: merle.lelfkoff2<br></div></div><div>twitter: @merle110<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><pre>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe</a> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
<br></pre></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>