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<p>The most fundamental problem with the general idea of setting
objectives and then using any number of clever methods to converge
on those objectives is that *at best* they are only as good as the
objectives themselves. The point being made here, of reducing
the granularity to a pieceweiz, forward chaining is well motivated
IMO, as it seems the "best we know how to do".</p>
<p>In the spirit of "exaptation", and "life is what happens while
you are making other plans", the point of picking an objective
and searching for it on an exotic, high dimensional (even fractal)
landscape is to provide a heuristic for *exploring* the parts of
the landscape you can't even imagine much less predict exists. I
would compare it more to "creative wandering" than "active
seeking", though I think the two can be compatible.</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>“It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the
journey that matters, in the end.”</i><span style="color:
rgb(24, 24, 24); font-family: Merriweather, Georgia, serif;
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
!important; float: none;"><i> </i><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(24, 24, 24); font-family: Merriweather,
Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;"> ―<span> </span></span><span
class="authorOrTitle" style="font-family: Lato,
"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-weight: bold; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 14px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">Ursula K. Le Guin,<span> </span></span><span
style="color: rgb(24, 24, 24); font-family: Merriweather,
Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;"></span><span
id="quote_book_link_18423" style="color: rgb(24, 24, 24);
font-family: Merriweather, Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial;"><a
class="authorOrTitle"
href="https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/817527"
style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none;
font-family: Lato, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif; font-weight: bold;">The Left Hand of Darkness</a><br>
</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
<span id="quote_book_link_18423" style="color: rgb(24, 24, 24);
font-family: Merriweather, Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
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initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;"></span></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/27/21 3:21 PM, Prof David West
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5504fc19-dcd9-424a-aa90-6b166b97c477@www.fastmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Agreed. The book uses the notion of steppingstones, An objective that requires traversal of multiple intermediary stepping stones is essentially unattainable. But if you do something it creates new stepping stones that lead who knows where, but you "harvest those" and use them as the basis for just one more step, somewhere, you may very well end up at a place worth getting to; it will be a surprise and almost certainly not where you thought you were going.
davew
On Thu, May 27, 2021, at 9:38 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">OK. I agree that failure on every one of those objectives is assured.
But the issue is less about setting the objective and measuring the
outcomes than it is about *harvesting* one's failures. Everyone (with
any sense) knows we'll fail on the overwhelming majority of those very
ambitious objectives. But the point of such objectives is not to
succeed perfectly, as if we're some GA satisfying a singular exogenous
objective function. Their purpose is an ethical one.
After Pieter's post, it rekindled my desire for a "dashboard"
presenting measures for each [sub]objective. But, going back to your
original, correct, objection, non-planned-for measures/effects would
not be included, biasing our understanding of the progression. Each
measure becomes nothing more than a bell on a slot machine, injecting a
little dopamine.
That's what the Pinkers and Shermers of the world seem like to me. Slot
machine players looking for that dopamine ... like Musk launching a
stupid car up into space. They're sooooo similar to the junkies I used
to clean up after in the park behind our old house.
On 5/27/21 8:10 AM, Prof David West wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I must agree and disagree.
Yes, my statement was an oversimplification, but not a caricature.
The caveat I should have included concerns the "distance" from where we are at the moment and the point at which the objective would be achieved.
I stand by my assertion that for objectives like the UN goals shared by Pieter and the less specific objectives in Steve's post, failure is assuredly more likely than success — based on the arguments presented in the book.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
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