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<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry. I meant no particular enthusiasm
for a living wage as an ultimate goal. The goal is, of
course, to create a system that allows a maximum number of
people to do what they want. So each freedom for one person
is judged against restrictions it imposes on others. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You could read the article … hint… hint. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>NST -</p>
<p>If you refer to your article in The Environmentalist you linked
recently, you may appreciate that I slipped it in near the top of
my stack of other writings on early "Environment v. Development"
perspectives and look forward to quaffing it in a single sitting.<br>
</p>
<p>I appreciate that *few* who promote a "living wage" consider it
an ultimate goal, maybe just a "good start" or "the least we can
do". I tip well and shop local somewhat independent of quality
of service (up to certain absurd thresholds) in this spirit. <br>
</p>
<p>I figured out a few decades ago that it does ME no good to have
others suffer unnecessarily, and that much of what is often
dismissed as "not my problem" is really just a lack of attention
to the web of implications in my life. <br>
</p>
<p>Maybe Marcus' post-humans will have much better network-depth
analysis built in, and will in fact "do the right thing" even when
the first-order consequences seem to be against self-interest. Or
maybe not.</p>
<p>-SAS</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:01cd01d78bbb$71bbd780$55338680$@gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus
Daniels<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 7, 2021 1:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies,
exaptatiion and exponential technological growth.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The pushback on everything from low wattage
lighting to mask mandates leaves me thinking that there is
really only one thing that motivates certain people: That
they can do whatever the hell they want and, crucially, that
other people cannot. A living wage infringes on that ranking
and so must be terrible. What if there were physical space
for everyone, food for everyone, and many optional ways to
invest one’s time? What if one didn’t need a wage at all?
What if you had to decide for yourself what was worth doing?
Heck, what if one (some post-human) didn’t even need food and
didn’t need to reproduce? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 7, 2021 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies,
exaptatiion and exponential technological growth.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">NST -<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="quotation">until Musk started being convincing (to
me) that he might get a modest number of humans TO Mars in
his (and my?) lifetime.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rocket rich guys to Mars, fight a war
against… (North Korea, Iran, Russia, even China), ANYTHING
to avoid paying a living wage on earth. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>And what about "paying a living wage" does not simply
continue an oppressive system of "wage slavery"? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>There are stories that suggest the people who built the
pyramids (the ones who cut/hauled/placed the stones) were not
literally slaves (chains, whips, severe privation, chattel,
threat of death, etc) but rather a "fully utilized skilled
labor class with sufficient resources provided for a
comfortable happy life". But it is not like they had any
upward mobility or alternative livelihood (Exodus
notwithstanding).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Anyone who has ever survived a "company town" knows that even
if most have modest houses, new vehicles, large screen TVs,
and lots of tasty food and drink and the hope of a gold watch
and an RV to snowbird in at retirement, that such dreams
either are false utopias or at least come to an end for the
next generation or so.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I don't endorse Mars Colonization nor continued/enhanced
wage-slavery at-poverty-level, and as a minimal "good start" I
do endorse "living wage". But I don't believe it does
anything more than nudge the boundaries of poverty far enough
to keep those previously below the poverty line from "eating
the rich" (which *most* if not all of us actually represent
here)... some of us are more well marbled than others.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Whether I like it or not, I'm pretty sure that Musk, the
royalty of the Emirates, China and gawdess knows who else will
continue to angle to colonize Mars. For me, it makes for a
good enough opportunity for the thought experiments around
what it means to start fresh with a few lessons learned. Of
course, we may soon use up the earthlike planets in our solar
system and have to wait a few generations to start
Amurika-forming similar planets in other systems (assuming we
don't extinguish ourselves/one-another first).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Or alternatively: "It's Complicated..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>SAS<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">N<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 7, 2021 9:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] off-label technologies,
exaptatiion and exponential technological growth.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Highly
recommend John Brunner's <i>The Sheep Look Up</i> for
fans of ecological disaster.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 6, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Steve
Smith wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
id="qt">
<p>... unbending the psychonaut thread<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">And something will have to power the
artificial magnetosphere after the teraforming..<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>... as I understand it, Mars lost it's magnetosphere a
(long) while back and nobody knows why (with the
atmosphere and liquid water following, blown off into
space by the solar wind). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I think we should just wait another millisecond in our
exponential technological growth curve and build a <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Stapledon"
moz-do-not-send="true">Stapledon Sphere</a> (more
commonly referenced as a Dyson Sphere) instead.
Stapledon's Golden Age era <i><u>First and Last Men</u></i>
presaged both terraforming and genetic engineering . <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Jack Williamson (whose horn I toot here often), another
Golden Age author, wrote (in modernish times - 2001) the
novel Terraforming Earth (he died at 98 in 2006). A good
friend of mine (who introduced us) met Jack when he (my
friend) was a pre-teen and kept in touch for the next 50+
years, gave him the title "Terraforming Terra" which Jack
really liked but they both were ultimately overruled by
his publisher. <i>Terraforming Terra </i>is much more
poetic than <i>Terraforming Earth</i>, no?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(speaking of Terraforming... Mars) I held off reading Kim
Stanley Robinson's Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy (ca early
90s) until Musk started being convincing (to me) that he
might get a modest number of humans TO Mars in his (and
my?) lifetime. I'm still an ffFFFing luddite about these
things, but I also see an inevitable arc here. Robinson
did a good job (I thought) of characterizing the
sociopoliticalspiritual implications of all this. I
forget how he solved the magnetosphere problem (or powered
it).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For anyone who thinks there are endogenous existential
threats afoot (e.g. climate change) and also appreciates
speculative fiction, I highly recommend Robinson's <a
href="https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50998056-the-ministry-for-the-future"
moz-do-not-send="true">Ministry-for-the-Future</a>
written/published before COVID but not by much. While it
doesn't exhaustively discuss every
sociopoliticaleconomictechnical response to a tumbled gyro
of our noo-bio-cryo-sphere of a planet, it covers a lot
very convincingly. I don't suggest any of his maunderings
will come true or even have more than passing resemblance
to the future we are stumbling into in the next few
decades, but it was satisfying to read someone who has
clearly researched the hell out of the stuff coming at us
like a swarm of bugs hitting our windshield (while we
proudly outdrive our headlights).<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 6, 2021, at 4:52 PM,
Steve Smith <a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sasmyth@swcp.com></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Don't forget about Mars!<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>LANL physicist Steve Howe was a proponent of <a
href="https://www.lanl.gov/science/NSS/issue1_2011/story4full.shtml"
moz-do-not-send="true">plowsharing Rover</a> into
a nuclear rocket for Mars with the argument that the
radiation exposure to astronauts by the drive was
less than the extra time spent outside the earth's
magnetic field (charged-particle shield) in the
cosmic/solar radiation flux.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>He went on to promoting antimatter (anti-protons)
instead:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <a
href="https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/06/steven-howe-breakthroughs-for-antimatter-production-and-storage.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/06/steven-howe-breakthroughs-for-antimatter-production-and-storage.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Oh yeh, and he's the first person I know to have
self-published (science) fiction through Amazon
(before Doug Roberts even). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>He used to carry a briefcase full of copies on his
work-travels to sell on the plane and/or restock the
rack at the ABQ Sunport. I Just checked his Amazon
page and it seems he's continued to riff:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><a
href="https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B005L9MAL2?_encoding=UTF8&node=283155&offset=0&pageSize=12&searchAlias=stripbooks&sort=author-sidecar-rank&page=1&langFilter=default#formatSelectorHeader"
moz-do-not-send="true">Steven-Howe</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>His first book exposes his techno-libertarian
tendencies. I just learned of the sequel(s).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Friam <a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:24 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><friam@redfish.com></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] for our psychonauts<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Reminds me of that period in which people were desperately looking for something to do with nuclear explosives other than kill one another. Like: "Let's blow a new hole in the Isthmus of Panama!" Project Plowshares, it was called. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Friam <a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 10:57 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: FriAM <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><friam@redfish.com></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Subject: [FRIAM] for our psychonauts<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>What Should We Make Of Sasha Chapin's Claim That Taking LSD Restored His Sense Of Smell After COVID?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-should-we-make-of-sasha-chapins" moz-do-not-send="true">https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-should-we-make-of-sasha-chapins</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>I haven't read it, yet. I'm hoping posting it here will remind me to actually read it.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>--<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">☤</span>>$ uǝlƃ<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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