<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Good example. Like the USA South Africa was a former British colony. And both countries had to struggle with racism in the past. But the development of democracy was different. The rise and fall of democracy is an interesting topic</div><div dir="auto">https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691177465/the-decline-and-rise-of-democracy</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I wonder what the essential factor is: do immoral presidents cause the collapse of democracy in a country by undermining democratic institutions or is it the other way round: the economy (and therefore the country) is already broken and institutions are weak, which enables immoral authoritarian rulers to grab power? Or a combination of both? </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-J.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div align="left" dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Pieter Steenekamp <pieters@randcontrols.co.za> </div><div>Date: 8/8/21 20:26 (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> </div><div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Moral collapse and state failure </div><div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr">Well, I'm from South Africa, and we have been close to moral collapse and IMO that could have led to our state failing.<br><br>If you ask ten South Africans you'll get maybe twenty opinions, below is just my very brief view of what has been and what is happening in South Africa.<br><br>South Africa became democratic in 1994 with Nelson Mandela the president. With him at the helm we had the moral high ground. His immediate successor Thabo Mbeki also did well. But between 2009 and 2017 Jacob Zuma was our president. He looted very seriously from the state and unfortunately under him many people in all state organisations started to also loot. The corruption became very deep. He is in jail now.<br><br>We now have Cyril Ramaphosa as president and it's anybody's guess, but at least I'm very confident that Cyril is leading us again towards the moral high ground and away from state failure. <br><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 at 19:18, Jochen Fromm <<a href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net">jofr@cas-group.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">This paper from last year argues that moral collapse and state failure are linked. Would you agree?</div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpos.2020.568704/full">https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpos.2020.568704/full</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-J.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>
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