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<p>EricS wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6F2642C6-A74B-4608-9B8B-BA553EE043A3@santafe.edu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
You know what’s fun in this, is the window it gives on the sources
of people’s finding things compelling: what G.C. Rota called “the
unthematized” in his writings on phenomenology (philosopher’s
sense, not science usage).
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If so many Eastern traditions hadn’t built up such a
sense that all this was real, and so many decades had not passed
with Westerners who didn’t grow up in those cultures being
convinced that they were “onto something”, the whole Star Wars
series would have been a complete meh. People would have seen
Yoda wave his hand slowly at something and have some things
move, and probably responded What’s the point?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have a friend or acquaintance, one Chinese parent
(Taiwanese) and one Japanese, grew up between the two countries,
with also some time spent in the US, but not too much formative
time. She grew up completely unstained by anything from the
Christian tradition. She tells me that, watching The Exorcist,
she finds the famous scene in which the girl’s head goes around
in a circle vaguely comic, but mostly obscure and arbitrary.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As with all things involving consciousness or the
vague “sense of reality”, it will be hard to get at these things
in any systematic way that doesn’t seem stilted and bleaching
them of whatever makes the frameshift in experience interesting.
But would be fun if one could find a way to do it.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>After Gabriel Garcia Marquez (attributed one of the founders of
Magical Realism) died, NPR re-aired an old interview with him that
I found incredibly motivating. <br>
</p>
<p>The two main takeaways from the interview were:</p>
<p>A) He spent his days as a child with his grandfather who was an
ultra-rationalist fascinated with the emerging science and
industry of the period (1930s) and in the evenings under the
influence of his grandmother and aunts who held an entirely
superstitious/mystical view of the world and how/why things
happened as they did. He claimed to manage to hold a strong and
integrated belief in both world-views in their own way.<br>
</p>
<p>B) The legacy of Columbia and his lineage being descendants of
the Spanish Noblemen who came to the Americas to find their
fortune (only the first son of Nobility would inherit titles and
wealth directly) with the support of family and others of wealth
(seeking more). It was incumbent on these young adventurers to
keep "kiting" their stories forward, telling taller and taller
tales and making larger and larger promises to their "investors"
to keep the support flowing until they either did actually "strike
it rich" or until they were so upside down they couldn't be
expected to repay... and were allowed to "retire" in a distant
ignominy after decades of unfulfilled stories and promises.</p>
<p>My own father, raised by an ultra-rational "modern" father found
great solace in the "tall tales" his uncles would tell him while
visiting for weekends or longer in "the hills and hollers of
Appalachia". Not only did he delight in them, he really wanted
to believe them. One notable story was that he was envious of
his uncles (and cousins) lush curly hair, his own father being
mostly bald by 30 and he himself easily influenced. The uncles
told him that it was "the water" and they could "wash his hair
curly"... he spent the rest of his time visiting them, proud of
his new head of "curly hair" when in fact, there were simply no
mirrors around for him to see otherwise. Apparently this went on
for many visits where he would go visit to get his "curly hair
refreshed". <br>
</p>
<p>Another example was when he was younger being told that the
youngest kids had to go to bed early because there weren't enough
beds in the house for everyone, and once they went to sleep, they
would get stiff, they would stand them against the wall while the
older kids slept in the beds. This was aided by the fact that the
older kids *did* go to bed later and get up earlier than the
younger ones. His own father was apparently careful not to
contradict the uncles on these stories even though from what I
know of him, it must have galled him to let such blatant "lies" go
uncorrected.</p>
<p>Having hosted a Q-Anon level conspiracy theorist in my home for a
year (5 years ago), I definitely don't accept "all belief systems
are equal" in the way she acted it out (she *was* mildly
embarrassed to admit to listening to Alex Jones, but probably not
because she understood how problematic he was in fact, just in
reputation?) Another house-mate (oil and water/dogs and cats)
used to turn to me after she would leave the room upon making one
of her sweeping proclamations (like "I think everyone should be
allowed to believe whatever they want") would turn to me and say
"Tami... I don't want to know what you 'believe', I want to know
what you THINK"). Ed was a very creative artist and had suffered
severe brain damage many years, aggravated by multiple ECT
(electroshock) therapy sessions later to try to renormalize his
brain function, but was also very astute about logical and
intellectual matters even though he also could indulge in a lot of
magical/wishful thinking of his own. I learned a lot by
counter/example from both of them.<br>
</p>
<p>This rambly reflection is mostly about the more (possibly)
important issue of how we might collectively imagine a
(collective) future for humanity (and other beings including, for
example, an entire viable biosphere?). It seems as if one of the
features (illusions) of consciousness is that conscious beings can
apprehend the world we live in and predict futures within it
wherein our *actions do matter*. Meaning we in some sense get to
(have to) choose the future world we will inhabit in our own
personal futures. Extreme optimism and pessimism run somewhat
counter to the pretense that "what we do matters" in a fundamental
way. </p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6F2642C6-A74B-4608-9B8B-BA553EE043A3@santafe.edu">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Eric</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 16, 2021, at 2:50 AM, Marcus Daniels
<<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">How about Reiki?<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/reiki-cant-possibly-work-so-why-does-it/606808/"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Does Reiki Work? -
The Atlantic</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225,
225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Roger
Critchlow<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday,
August 15, 2021 10:00 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The Friday
Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color:
blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FRIAM]
ivermectin, nope<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Oh, forgot to clearly
identify the irony: ;-)<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Doing
diligence on this crap is way exhausting. I am
entirely in sympathy with your dilemma.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Even
if ivermectin does nothing useful, it still may be
a useful treatment in situations where no other
treatment is available. And fabricating evidence
of its efficacy would also be a comfort to the
patients and the medical staff in that situation.
A placebo can be better than nothing, a placebo
with a bogus story behind it can be even better.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">-- rec
--<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">-- rec
--<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On
Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM Roger Critchlow <<a
href="mailto:rec@elf.org" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rec@elf.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid;
border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204,
204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:
4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Pieter
--<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I
looked over the links you listed. <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">They
seem to claim that withdrawl of ivermectin
caused the spike in Covid cases in India, and
also that administering ivermectin caused the
end of the spike in Covid cases. Both of
these claims are sort of hard to evaluate,
since I don't see any evidence that anyone has
ever distributed ivermectin/doxycycline/zinc
kits very widely, either before or after the
spike in infections. Constructing and
delivering kits for 1.366 billion people would
have been quite an achievement for any
economy. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I
followed the links to <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fc19ivermectin.com%2f&c=E,1,XdygX8tCh96bxh9dyZ539zJZiXPXpIizdysWwW-1DbxT-Ova-SbtDFHiGQw0BOo-A6nD6AZMLz4egXL-c_4juKM8uOZa5yX-1Do37vPm25BV70Q,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://c19ivermectin.com/</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and
found the list of ivermectin studies. The
list presented currently claims 110 studies,
68 peer reviewed, 64 involving control and
treatment groups, but it's puffed up with
another 50 entries which are news clippings,
press releases, meta-analyses, reviews, and
other miscellanea.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I
looked an early review article, <a
href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf</a>,
though the pdf is hosted at<a
href="http://nature.com/" target="_blank"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">nature.com</a>,
it's from a different journal.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none
solid; border-left-width: 1pt;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding:
0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt;
margin-right: 0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The
Journal of Antibiotics (2020) 73:593–602<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fdoi.org%2f10.1038%2fs41429-020-0336-z&c=E,1,86DtBivcmB6jFZMeE6rlaKtevLCwIAONTRPZRtvALOIQ4dFu-rtI2bTqrSZBFqeTa95Gqa8ECOC6VhZCvn69DeJ9wgXZ2cqJ-FpPftae3JBsIw,,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z</a><br
class="">
Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral
effects to COVID-19 complementary regimen
Fatemeh Heidary1 ● Reza Gharebaghi2,3<br
class="">
1 Head of Ophthalmology Division, Taleghani
Hospital, Ahvaz Jundishapur University of
Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Iran <br class="">
2 Kish International Campus, University of
Tehran, Tehran, Iran <br class="">
3 International Virtual Ophthalmic Research
Center (IVORC), Austin, TX, USA<br class="">
Abstract <br class="">
Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to
treat a range of diseases, with its
antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer
properties as a wonder drug. It is highly
effective against many microorganisms
including some viruses. In this comprehensive
systematic review, antiviral effects of
ivermectin are summarized including in vitro
and in vivo studies over the past 50 years.
Several studies reported antiviral effects of
ivermectin on RNA viruses such as Zika,
dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra,
Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis,
chikungunya, Semliki Forest, Sindbis, Avian
influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and
Respiratory Syndrome, Human immunodeficiency
virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory
syndrome coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are
some studies showing antiviral effects of
ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine
herpes type 1, BK polyomavirus, pseudorabies,
porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus
1. Ivermmust beectin plays a role in several
biological mechanisms, therefore it could
serve as a potential candidate in the
treatment of a wide range of viruses including
COVID-19 as well as other types of
positive-sense single-stranded RNA viruses. In
vivo studies of animal models revealed a broad
range of antiviral effects of ivermectin,
however, clinical trials are necessary to
appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin
in clinical setting<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The
quick read is that ivermectin interferes with
viral reproduction<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">in vitro</i>, but fails to work<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">in vivo</i>, for all of these
viruses. It's been tried against every virus
that's turned up in the last 50 years, had
some<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">in vitro</i> anti-viral activity,
but never became an approved treatment for any
of them. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It
must be that the elites are consipring.
That's the only reasonable explanation for the
facts.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--
rec --<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On
Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:28 AM Pieter Steenekamp
<<a
href="mailto:pieters@randcontrols.co.za"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">pieters@randcontrols.co.za</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none
solid; border-left-width: 1pt;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding:
0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt;
margin-right: 0in;" class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;">Nick, <br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for pointing out that my message is
not very clear. Let me rewrite it with a
change in wording, I hope it's better this
time.<br class="">
<br class="">
I believe that the study that Marcus
referred to above , <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid</a> ,
is most probably correct.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Help me if I'm wrong. It proves
that according to a specific protocol,
there are no benefits against covid in
using ivermectin. Does that mean that
there are no other prophylaxis protocols
that include ivermectin that do give
benefits?<br class="">
<br class="">
I'd like to make sense of what's happening
in India. According to some (see
references below), the use of ivermectin
is effective against covid in India. I
really don't know how reliable these
sources are. Does anyone have better
information? I'd like to know. <br
class="">
<br class="">
References:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.worldometers.info%2fcoronavirus%2fcountry%2findia%2f&c=E,1,gAFyJzVYT4r6283fIPNrO1P1rwhOdfXKKeCeDNTqGrGOJt0raWdzdl9gOZtpxKgF-pXSEByyKO0OyBNuH9sKQMVMbvrNfn97-SIb_pyzjoWcuPwTMSjnL9U,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class="">
<a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fassets.researchsquare.com%2ffiles%2frs-208785%2fv1%2fd6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf&c=E,1,oeVmbB67kzl0ucocId_zhufG0EAjZcUSaapwFk90q-3youURG4d7Vo-n4EL5DsZvwzekC5AZCXVKWMKH7XH1rMuUbOqcdscUUBcw9HjOjAbk1NOPdg,,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><a
href="https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fnonvenipacem.com%2f2021%2f07%2f31%2findia-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too%2f&c=E,1,PZmGzQ8ARuaYqfZ1QFTmwz7QkqAqpqm4IYr3_8aM-pQ-KbOEieJouJcOpzYYo7kkhD_nvM7f-dtAMhD5djk0lrcYlsVhPlQtE8SOMWeZK3xQLSL7TEAJ&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
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sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2f2021%2f05%2felites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use%2f&c=E,1,KHTQaNY3zpXNPgoMU88GPaoOdjCnqgJoHgbvJ9jfR1OQ16JBvGV2L5OYFakFs6d__QjsVGY0kfZoV8F0hPFR0tPin8tVV8_jqdAuEJfQ6oRIJG4,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"
class="">Pieter<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 23:13,
<<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none
none solid; border-left-width: 1pt;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:
4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Pieter<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Did you perhaps
leave out a link? Which study?<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Nick Thompson<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"
class="">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,de30HVsmBU2s1ajpYmYcEQJkfmxJvpXE_am5aFwknHPDiqEu3NHj-OBR7d9RNtEtbDTlMZmXhULoKgFYN8put3DQbHi3VQJ2bxAdIYuwONQ,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"
class="">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="border-style: solid none
none; border-top-width: 1pt;
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padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Pieter
Steenekamp<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
August 14, 2021 12:09 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The
Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[FRIAM] ivermectin, nope<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">I believe this
study is most probably correct. <br
class="">
<br class="">
Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that
according to a specific protocol,
there are no benefits against covid
in using ivermectin. Does that mean
that there are no other prophylaxis
protocols that include ivermectin
that do give benefits?<br class="">
<br class="">
I'd like to make sense of what's
happening in India. According to
some (see reference below), the use
of ivermectin is effective against
covid in India. I really don't know
how reliable these sources are. Does
anyone have better information? I'd
like to know. <br class="">
<br class="">
References:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.worldometers.info%2fcoronavirus%2fcountry%2findia%2f&c=E,1,jqnkAJkh2jIevxHy-QJvW6YeYQPJ7Kg_qAMO1vFyJTipWkxxgGXWhNxVCa_Weg0uqWv4X7CWLA2AqiBDTRbDB6S1y3LPONm04qvlqd2BpKGsouk,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fassets.researchsquare.com%2ffiles%2frs-208785%2fv1%2fd6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf&c=E,1,fgO97fdJK3VrSSFkmarymDQ1gDfYRzp0-_vYVkAPD0qgkP7K0O8SOBYzBzHKUtdrn7bOPt8KsWNfX_Y0_wns4_JF1YLhBHnZX2XgZXDG2rx1jA,,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fnonvenipacem.com%2f2021%2f07%2f31%2findia-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too%2f&c=E,1,kcbwGfnH2f7GEE6YkYlnmnvbr7l4MFF51Ay9x7wP4_1GcbH14f7LIfV5N5gzg2q6V6Elt4RA9L0v_iF3kCvtZNz2W7CYfJPNG_rH1jiWBWnPPPDkCInLqFg,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2f2021%2f05%2felites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use%2f&c=E,1,u3QStCzK06ZjcQziwwrfk_uK5n0JmZo6MO7U4kmYYgWpAX5YaeEJADWTCUZwRTeVzdY7DZ1h_tTcZDKzf-i4VeCjzTfyu8yrzgvBmDeeDsryjMDNEELynQ,,&typo=1"
target="_blank" style="color:
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underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Pieter<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p
class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">On Sat, 14
Aug 2021 at 17:34, Marcus Daniels
<<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
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<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a
href="https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid"
target="_blank" style="color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
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!important;" class="">FRIAM-COMIC<span
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a>
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