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<p>Nick -</p>
<p>I read it when it was fairly new and I was very young. The
interwebs (I mean, whatever vapid popular culture rode on top of
in those days) was aflutter and I was a voracious reader, a
motorcycle owner/rider/maintainer, and I was enamored of the idea
of eastern mysticism in spite of the harsh and distorting filters
Western pop culture shoved it through before it could get to me.
So of course i read it. And of course I was disappointed.<br>
</p>
<p>I was hugely disappointed and annoyed by Pirsig/Phaedrus. I did
not ride motorcycles for the reasons or in the way he did, nor did
I maintain mine in his fashion nor did I hold it up in the way he
did. Of course, Pirsig (and his character) were somewhat older
than I was and had had more time in life to F* up... he just
seemed like a self-indulgent F*-up to me, dragging his son through
the worst of it along with him. I was also offended by all the
hubub about the book... for the most part I "just didn't get
it". It just seemed like more of our pop-culture's need to
elevate a quite base neopatriarchy: (e.g. Hemingway, Kerouac, HS
Thompson, Abbey, etc)<br>
</p>
<p>When Mary moved here about 4 years ago, we (re)read ZAMM
together. In the intervening years I had learned a lot more about
mental illness including having direct experience with people who
had endured a great deal of it, up to and including Electroshock
Therapy. I had also grown out of my motorcycle riding identity
(in my 50s) but still held onto fetishizing the spirit of
something as simple and "easy" to maintain as a (classic)
motorcycle (or auto). I had also read a lot more Greek (and
other Western/Eastern) Philosophy in the intervening years and had
my own ideas about "Quality" including Christopher Alexander's
ineffable "Quality Without a Name".</p>
<p>I appreciated ZAMM/Pirsig/Phaedrus a lot more the second time but
still felt like it was somewhat self-indulgent. To the extent
that I know of Pirsig's subsequent unfolding of a life (including
his son's death) I felt more sympathetic to what I had judged as
F*up. It also helps that I went on to F* up my own life
repeatedly and sometimes even recursively (yet I am still here,
being self-indulgent and judgemental).</p>
<p>this was a nice obituary blog entry:</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://douglastoft.com/robert-pirsig-on-coming-to-terms-with-the-death-of-his-son/">https://douglastoft.com/robert-pirsig-on-coming-to-terms-with-the-death-of-his-son/</a></p>
<p>Another couple of (re) reads we did together were:</p>
<p> Moby Dick</p>
<p> A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/19/21 1:46 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:029b01d79532$e0572570$a1057050$@gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dave:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As usual, my [conscious] motives were not
so high falutin’. As usual I am trying to get others to think
with me because I cannot think alone. To the extent that I am
a philosopher, it probably is because of that book and I am
really interesting in the role it played in the lives of
others. For instance, one friend told me that his response
was to go out and buy a motor cycle. Also I am interested in
what a second reading, 40 plus years would be like for each of
you. It was quite a revelation to me. So, as general, you
give my conscious mind too much credit. I can’t speak for the
unconscious one. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stephen, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you mean, the original Greek figure, no
I don’t. He’s briefly described somewhere in zamm as a
sophist, but that’s already more than I know. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">N<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen
Guerin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 19, 2021 3:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] "ZAMM"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">do you know Phaedrus? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 7:46 PM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Colleagues,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
wonder if Pirsig’s <i>Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance </i>was a thing for any of you, and if
you would be interested in pursuing a thread about it
and, if so, if you would be willing to get it down off
your shelf and flip through it, looking for the parts
you loved and the parts you hated. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">N<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nick
Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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