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<p class="MsoNormal">They need to explain themselves, and it is entirely appropriate to make their lives risky and inconvenient until they do.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Prof David West<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Glen is very sensitive to potential misrepresentation/misinterpretation of his words, as am I. I merely asked if Glen's sentences, which on their face seem to equate anti-vax and stupid, should
be interpreted that way. In a sense I was trolling him because I know he would not make such a blanket and absolute assertion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">However, the entire tenor of the thread, and the public rhetoric regarding people holding anti-vax positions seems, to me, to be grounded in exactly this kind of assertion: "if
<u>you</u> (a person) are anti-vax <u>you</u> are stupid (and probably a Trumpista or at least a Republican).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In my opinion this kind of assertion is wrong, harmful, and, if your goal is to increase vaccination rates, entirely counter-productive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 10:55 AM, uǝlƃ
</span><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">☤</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>$ wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> I addressed the stupid people vs stupid acts. Dave makes that <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> conflation. I don't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> But re: punishment - I also never claimed stupidity should be punished. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> I claimed stupidity should be painful. As a person who inflicts pain on <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> myself daily, on purpose, it would be silly to identify pain with <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> punishment. Futher, many of us are affected by chronic pain, often of <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> unknown mechanism/origin. Sophistry about the problem of Evil <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> notwithstanding, chronic pain is not the universe punishing you. The <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> story of Job is a stupid story.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> We *could* talk about pain as a mechanism for aversive learning, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> though. The chronic pain I suffer from has taught me how to (and that I <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> must) moderately meter out my pain in order to avoid greater amounts of <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> pain. Pain has taught me a great deal. It's not a punishment in the <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> slightest sense of that word.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> On 8/26/21 9:44 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> > It would be good to make a distinction between "punishment" and "self-preservation". There is something incoherent about asserting that stupid people need to be punished, because one of
the salient features of stupidity is an inability to learn from experience. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> > <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> > Also, don't we need to distinguish between stupid people and stupid acts?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> -- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> </span><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">☤</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>$ uǝlƃ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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