<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Glen is very sensitive to potential misrepresentation/misinterpretation of his words, as am I. I merely asked if Glen's sentences, which on their face seem to equate anti-vax and stupid, should be interpreted that way. In a sense I was trolling him because I know he would not make such a blanket and absolute assertion.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">However, the entire tenor of the thread, and the public rhetoric regarding people holding anti-vax positions seems, to me, to be grounded in exactly this kind of assertion: "if <u>you</u> (a person) are anti-vax <u>you</u> are stupid (and probably a Trumpista or at least a Republican).<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">In my opinion this kind of assertion is wrong, harmful, and, if your goal is to increase vaccination rates, entirely counter-productive.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 10:55 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> I addressed the stupid people vs stupid acts. Dave makes that <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> conflation. I don't.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> But re: punishment - I also never claimed stupidity should be punished. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> I claimed stupidity should be painful. As a person who inflicts pain on <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> myself daily, on purpose, it would be silly to identify pain with <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> punishment. Futher, many of us are affected by chronic pain, often of <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> unknown mechanism/origin. Sophistry about the problem of Evil <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> notwithstanding, chronic pain is not the universe punishing you. The <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> story of Job is a stupid story.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> We *could* talk about pain as a mechanism for aversive learning, <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> though. The chronic pain I suffer from has taught me how to (and that I <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> must) moderately meter out my pain in order to avoid greater amounts of <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> pain. Pain has taught me a great deal. It's not a punishment in the <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> slightest sense of that word.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> On 8/26/21 9:44 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> > It would be good to make a distinction between "punishment" and "self-preservation". There is something incoherent about asserting that stupid people need to be punished, because one of the salient features of stupidity is an inability to learn from experience. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> > <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> > Also, don't we need to distinguish between stupid people and stupid acts?<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> -- <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> ☤>$ uǝlƃ<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">> <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>