<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">The most widely used drug for open heart surgery was discovered by a woman researching zombies in Haiti. There were (probably no longer are) well documented cases of zombies, people pronounced dead by physicians, buried, dug up late that night and seen wandering around the village with severely reduced mental capacity, shuffling walk, etc. etc.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Bad people would use a poison akin to curare (actually came from a species of puffer fish if I remember correctly) to "kill someone. It had the effect of reducing heart beat / respiration to levels below stethoscope / naked ear detectable levels. Person was buried almost immediately after death pronouncement (it is hot in Haiti with no embalming). Poisoned person wakes up buried alive as the drug wears off - shortly before being dug up by bad guy. Instant Zombie, both trauma and the drug adversely affecting mental capacity.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">There is an entire field of ethnobotany and ethnopharmacology devoted to discovering and documenting exactly this kind of folk cure - natural healing - holistic healing - etc.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Western medicine often has a hard time discovering the "chemistry behind such cures" because they are looking for a specific problem and a (usually) single chemical "cure." Most folk medicine and long established areas like Aryuvedic medicine focus on multi-factor "cures" addressing multi-factor problems - all in a complex balance and set of associations.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Tue, Aug 31, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div dir="auto"><div>Our daughter's inlaws are Evangelical Christians. They support Trump but they got their vaccinations as soon as they could except for our son-in-law who resisted until our daughter got forceful. He still resists wearing a mask. The mother said she's decided that both the left and the right are insane. We have to be careful because if our grandson get exposed via his mother he won't be able to go to his fourth grade class for a while. They're all expecting test results today. Son-in-law has been coughing and has a fever. If he tests positive we may have a full guest house.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div dir="auto"><div>---<br></div><div>Frank C. Wimberly<br></div><div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br></div><div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br></div><div><br></div><div>505 670-9918<br></div><div>Santa Fe, NM<br></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:59 AM Roger Critchlow <<a href="mailto:rec@elf.org">rec@elf.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>I don't know, there are many reasons why a pharmaceutical company might fail. <br></div><div><br></div><div>One of the most spectacular is illustrated by googling "glycoRNA". So, a whole class of biological compounds, short RNA sequences decorated with glycans (also known as polysaccharides), first suspected to exist in 2019 (<a href="https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/787614v1.full" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/787614v1.full</a>) turn out to exist in 2021 (<a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2021.04.023" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2021.04.023</a>) in spades, all over cell membranes. Nobody knew these compounds existed, so no one was looking to develop them or antagonists to them into drugs.<br></div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, the snake oil sellers don't just kill their customers, they also traumatize the survivors. If the advertisers on Tucker will screw you, who can you trust?<br></div><div><br></div><div>-- rec --<br></div></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:35 AM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;"><div>Yeah, I suppose a locus on the left centers around the concepts of "natural", "organic", or "holistic" whereas on the right it's more fractured, objective oriented. And since much of science is structured by focused objectives, the righties tend to align with targeted science and the lefties tend to align with things like "emergence" and multifarious conditions (like chronic lyme disease or fibromyalgia or ... climate change). It would be fun to find out how many casual yoga goers describe themselves as left or right. (I imagine actual yogis would avoid the question. 8^D)<br></div><div> <br></div><div> In the end, nonlinearity is hard for everyone. Where pharma has a crisp target, it will find a treatment. But where the target's not so crisp, it'll likely fail.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> On 8/31/21 8:15 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br></div><div> > On one hand there is woo-woo, but others have semi-reasonable concerns that drug candidates don't make it through the medical establishment. I am skeptical about that because pharma stands to make money from any compounds that work, and they have huge investments in high throughput screening. So it seems to me they'd probably find the chemistry behind herbal remedies.<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > -----Original Message-----<br></div><div> > From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$<br></div><div> > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 7:31 AM<br></div><div> > To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a><br></div><div> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Liberal "othering" or statement of fact?<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > I don't want to be a "both sides" person. But there's plenty of that on the left, too. I suppose it's for products like Paltrow's: <a href="https://goop.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://goop.com/</a> Or reiki. Or crystals. Snake oil is non-partisan.<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > One thing that's a toss-up for me is the NCCIH: <a href="https://www.nccih.nih.gov/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nccih.nih.gov/</a> On the one hand, I'm an integrationist ... and my contrariness demands I respect *complementary*. But some of the stuff they support research into looks like hogwash to me. I try to keep an open mind, though.<br></div><div> > <br></div><div> > On 8/31/21 7:09 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><div> >> *//*So saith Paul Krugman:<br></div><div> >><br></div><div> >> <br></div><div> >><br></div><div> >> <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/opinion/covid-misinformation-supple" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/opinion/covid-misinformation-supple</a><br></div><div> >> ments.html <br></div><div> >> <<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/opinion/covid-misinformation-suppl" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/opinion/covid-misinformation-suppl</a><br></div><div> >> ements.html><br></div><div> >><br></div><div> >> Once you’re sensitized to the link between snake oil and right-wing politics, you realize that it’s pervasive.<br></div><div> >><br></div><div> >> This is clearly true in the right’s fever swamps. Alex Jones of Infowars has built a following by pushing conspiracy theories, but he makes money by selling nutritional supplements <<a href="https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/05/how-does-alex-jones-make-money.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/05/how-does-alex-jones-make-money.html</a>>. It’s also true, however, for more mainstream, establishment parts of the right. For example, Ben Shapiro, considered an intellectual on the right, hawks supplements.Look at who advertises <<a href="https://tvrev.com/whos-still-advertising-with-tucker-carlson-at-the-end-of-q2-2021/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://tvrev.com/whos-still-advertising-with-tucker-carlson-at-the-end-of-q2-2021/</a>> on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show. After Fox itself, the top advertisers are My Pillow, then three supplement companies.Snake oil peddlers, clearly, find consumers of right-wing news and punditry a valuable market for their wares. So it shouldn’t be surprising to find many right-leaning Americans ready to see vaccination as a liberal plot and turn to dubious alternatives — although, again, I didn’t see livestock dewormer coming.<br></div><div> >><br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> -- <br></div><div> ☤>$ uǝlƃ<br></div><div> <br></div><div> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>