<div dir="ltr">It could be both.<br><br>If you just describe it in terms of t-shirts then it is an empirical scientific law. You can claim to have discovered an empirical scientific law<br>If you now express it in mathematical terms, and the mathematical community accepts it as true, then it is then a mathematical axiom. Now
(and nobody else has previously discovered it) you can claim to have discovered a mathematical axiom.<br><br>Then, as I mentioned earlier, if you prove your mathematical axiom, using formal mathematics, then only have you made a mathematical discovery.<br><br>Example<br>Bertram Russel started with the axiom 1+1=2 and then used 300 pages of formal mathematics to prove it, <br><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 19:07, <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="gmail-m_8450759579278400923WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">OK fine. Is it an empirical thingamabob or a mathematical one. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric Charles<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 3, 2021 11:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">I mean... I feel like "discovery" if the first challenge for your classification system to justify... ;- )<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 11:24 AM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Colleagues,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Years ago, my daughter, who knows I hate to shop, bought me a bunch of plain T-shirts. The label’s on the shirts were printed, rather than attached, and so have faded. Each morning, this leaves me with the problem of decerning which is the front and which the back of the shirt, and even, which the inside and which the out-. After years of fussing with these shirts I decerned a pattern. Up/down, inside-in/inside-out, left/right, front/back, crossed arms/uncrossed arms, you can’t do one transformation without doing at least one other. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Is this an empirical discovery or a mathematical one? <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I guess it boils down to whether “front/back” entails in its meaning another transformation. Should we call empirical discoveries “discoveries” and mathematical discoveries “revelations”?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Nick <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>archives: <a href="http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .<br>
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