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NST -<br>
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cite="mid:02d801d7ab2e$9e5f4cd0$db1de670$@gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Well, Steve,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Again I ask, What exactly are you
seeking. And why are you seeking THAT? </p>
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</blockquote>
<p>I'll take this as a literal question, directed specifically *to*
me based on the text I just shared. The simple, glib answer is
"I don't know" to both questions. A similarly simplified but not
as glib answer is that I am seeking A) pain/discomfort relief for
myself, using the device as marketed.; B) an operative/intuitive
understanding of the basic effects of high frequency/low voltage
stimulation of the skin/musculature/ligature/fascia out of
curiosity and a hope to be more efficient with A for myself and
others such as Mary who is the one having acute issues right now;
C) A professional/academic interest in simulated sensoria. <br>
</p>
<p>Most here seem happy enough with visual stimulation, and in
general the most blunt of visual tricks. Others may also be
familiar/experienced with audioscapes, etc. Gamers likely
experience visual/auditory simulated experiences with interaction
(within a narrative/setting/character framework).
Advanced/avante-garde games my also indulge the gamer in
world-building (again, within a framework). "cheap" haptics
like simple vibration of a mouse/controller or holding other props
in one's hand such that impingement between body parts and props
or props and props (e.g. chopsticks) are an interesting start, but
the various e-stim electrode arrays (mostly for performance/toning
enhancement) would seem to provide an entree to full-body
simulacra. The various (I'll avoid the acronyms) *sensors*
coupled with *activators* seem like they might, for example,
support being able to *feel* the air currents under my
avatar-Raven's wings whilst allowing me to tweak my pin and
tailfeathers to trim my glide/soar all while in VR. Maybe this
will be no better than the lucid-dream versions of this, I don't
know, but it is one of the many things that compels me.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:02d801d7ab2e$9e5f4cd0$db1de670$@gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p>Just TO head off the usual,
this is NOT for me a kinky question but a very abstract one.
And, to be honest, it is a bit rhetorical; ie. I already have
the arrogance to think that I know the answer. I think there
is a sense in which the search is the “goal”, and if you
provide the goal, without a search, you will obliterate it. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Occasionally, when I try to raise an issue
on FRIAM I get dragged into kink as a kind of raillery, and I
think, distraction. The best example was Doug who completely
short-sheeted my attempt to discuss vortexes and entropy by
talking about “Swirlies” (NOT Shirleys, to be clear). <br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I do find that episode in the Doug-with-a-bone show, now most of a
decade behind us, quite seminal in the Friam-Weave... I am mildly
abashed at having encouraged Doug to dive down that particular
rat-hole. I can't find any compensating value to his "swirlies"
tangent beyond being a rude caricature of your fascination (at the
time) with vortex formation/maintenance. I agree that those kinds
of tangents *are* a distraction almost exclusively. On the other
hand, this group is so diverse (within our narrow techno-centric,
white-male-mostly, academic-ish spectrum) that we each bring our own
parallaxical mirror to the party. A few months back Marcus
threatened to write a text-generator that simulated some of the more
obvious personalities here which implies that we are all *quite*
predictable (at least en-caricature), and all the attempts at
straw/steelmanning here seems to include a skinning or stylization
intended to reflect the recipient/subject of said steel/straw-man.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:02d801d7ab2e$9e5f4cd0$db1de670$@gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p><br>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let’s take an example that cannot be
kinkified. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let’s take, Getting the Giggles. The
Giggles is, for me, one of the holiest states one can
achieve. I know also that it can be produced when a group of
people, familiar and comfortable with one another, happen on a
bit of silliness together. I know also that it can be
produced by smoking pot. So, why bother with the people and
the silliness. Why not just take the drug? To which my
answer is, <b><i>Why</i></b> take the drug? </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm not big on chemical mood-altering myself... even
coffee/alcohol are things I avoid (ab)using often. I like me a
cup of coffee in the morning and a swig of rye or wine or beer
occasionally and they *do* alter my mood/metabolism in ways that I
find convenient/desireable, but it has been decades since I
deliberately tried to use either to kick me into an entirely
different modality. The trope of mean/sloppy/sappy drunk or of
caffiene-wired/deprived aren't very interesting to me. The
"harder" drugs don't appeal to me either (by extension)
particularly? Same for non-chem tech... while I am very
interested/practiced in VR/AR I'm not really aiming for a
psychedelic experience and in fact would generally avoid those as
available (how different is cybersickness from the
disorienting/nauseating experiences attributed to amatoxins and
alkaloids in psychedelic/entheogenic substances?)</p>
<p>That said, I think you are asking roughly about the metaphysics
of shortcuts and proxies and simulacra? I think that would be a
good discussion to have here, but not clear I can even stimulate
one much less lead it.</p>
<p>Anecdotally responding to your question of "the Giggles", early
in my professional career, my best boss/team ever was having a
small technical meeting (6 around a table) when the team leader
made the observation: "well, this isn't set in concrete or
anything, maybe silly-putty, but not concrete". <br>
</p>
<p> Silly Putty being in the pantheon of ubiquitous childhood toys
(Slinky/Etch-a-Sketch/Hula Hoop/GyroTop/etc) of the 60's and
having unique visual/tactile/olfactory bindings (who else knows
the smell, the unique way it went from "fluid" to
snappable/bounceable-solid, the uncanny-flesh-not-flesh color and
the quality of being able to (seemingly without corruption)
transfer newsprint forever?), I started cross-binding those
qualities with the topic of the meeting (somehow trying to nail
down a specification for a subsystem of the big system we were
developing/maintaining). The emotional-cognitive dissonance was
wycked... I started giggling and after a few minutes of trying to
stifle it I left the room, only to return and start again. Nobody
else was effected by these giggles, though I could tell my
incessant giggling (not my style one whit) *was* fascinating to
the others. It has been most of 40 years and I doubt anyone else
remembers that incident, but it was the worst/most-unanticipated
experience of involuntary response to something higher than what
is normally considered autonomic (hiccoughs, sneezes, knee-jerks,
blinking, etc.) <br>
</p>
<p>I endured too many parties where I was the only one in the room
who was (absolutely/relatively) sober/straight. I was mildly
envious of those who seemed to find *everything* heyelarious, both
individually and collectively, and yet... really? For the
longest time I thought I was just wired wrong/different, but now I
realize it just reflects the paradox of how much we are all alike
in entirely different ways. Or is it vice-versa?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:02d801d7ab2e$9e5f4cd0$db1de670$@gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve
Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 16, 2021 2:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Marcus wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Why did the big bang occur? Was it
because God had an orgasm? Jesus.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>The unfolding universe *is* the orgasm?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> ... induced by the meta-Goddess-as-Dominatrix
wielding Dark-Energy-Stim?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I *was* aware of the sex-application, though I would question
Dave's 10,000x purchases compared to medical relief/rehab and
performance enhancement. When shopping for the (ultimately
$30 device) i tripped over the whole range of applications
including a wide range of sexual kink it would seem.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I believe electrostim has been used by horse (and maybe more
importantly cattle) breeding for many decades to collect semen
for the turkey-baster work (to be crude)? I hate to guess
what the scene looked liked *developing* this technology... I
think that kind of behaviour would be illegal in most states
today.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The closest I came to "biting" on that application was the
conductive gloves designed to morph amongst traditional
electro-stim/massage/accupuncture... but most of the "unique"
electrode types cost many times the stim unit itself (I
suspect it is just a compact CPU with some D/A converters...
probably running Linux... there are probably DIY Arduino
builds or even amplifier circuits to drive these electrodes
from the headphone output of a smartphone. For my more
general interests in synthetic sensoria, I should check the
options of what can in fact be driven from the headphone jack
in consumer HMDs (e.g. Oculus Quest). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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