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p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">a lot of surgical tools. They were doing cataract surgery, for example, long before it was thought of in the West. I'll go back through my notes for other examples.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Sat, Sep 25, 2021, at 3:19 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="overflow-wrap:break-word;"><div class="qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Great, Dave,<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">What did you see there that had that effect?<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">n<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 25, 2021 4:33 PM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf<br></div><p></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;">The biggest problem with western science since the enlightenment, is the myth that pure science is morally neutral — that the science, e.g., making an atomic bomb, is totally and absolutely separate from the dropping of said bomb on Hiroshima.</span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;">The best morning of my trip to Istanbul was the one spent in the Islamic Museum of Science and Technology. Wonderful exhibits. Strong antidote to the poison of modern scientism.</span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;">davew</span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Sat, Sep 25, 2021, at 12:16 PM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;overflow-wrap:break-word;" id="qt-qt"><div><p>Dear Colleagues, <br></p><p>Because of an interest some of you expressed in Islamic science, I ran down the text linked below. It is an entire book, and I have read only the first chapter, but I found that fascinating. It is a sort of airing of linen concerning the role of science in the modern Islamic world that tracks in interesting ways the recent American ambivalence about science. This first chapter is both unsettling and very familiar at the same time. <br></p><p><a href="http://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf">http://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Islam-Science-Muslims-and-Technology-Seyyed-Hossein-Nasr-in-Conversation-with-Muzaffar-Iqbal-2009.pdf</a><br></p><p>Ok, just to give you sense of one of the places it leaves <b><i>me</i></b>: If the fault of western science is that it is laced with unacknowledged western values, what would a science that acknowledged its values look like. I have argued that the science we practice is absurdly dualistic (given that we have only one source of information). But it is unclear to me how “dualism” is a value. Is the “rape of nature” and all that follows implicit in dualism? I wish I could claim that if I turn you all into monists, you will all become wind=turbine fanatics, but I don’t think that’s the case. Do values guide what we do or are they just the heavy artillery that we muster to convince others to do what we have done? <br></p><p>See what you think?<br></p><p> <br></p><p>Nick<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">archives:<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div></blockquote><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif;"> </span></span><br></p></div></div><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div>5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>