<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/3/21 9:35 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09c101d7b8d0$d1296ba0$737c42e0$@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:"MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Speaking of words, I thought wuwei was
interesting. It seems to mean “nugatory”.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I would say not. I see how you could see the relation, but I
think SGs comparison to Physics' "least action" is inspired if not
entirely correct either. <br>
</p>
<p>It would not be inaction or irrelevance, but rather no
wasted/inappropriate/irrelevant action? "Just this much" is a
Buddhist phrase I've heard that captures a bit of it.</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09c101d7b8d0$d1296ba0$737c42e0$@gmail.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen
Guerin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 3, 2021 4:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"><friam@redfish.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 5:57 PM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Just
to be clear – and perhaps nerdishly literal minded –
I would NEVER claim that word play alone is science;
I would only claim that it has a role to play.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 10:59 AM <<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> You
might help me distinguish between vicious
DAWW and virtuous DAWW. You might exile
me. But you probably won’t get me to
stop. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
If we follow the virtuous DAWW, it feels like
<a
href="https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?wdqb=c%3A%2A%E6%97%A0%E4%B8%BA%2A&wdrst=0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">wuwei
</a>science to me. Who needs <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_(physics)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">action</a>
when you got words? <a
href="https://youtu.be/Sj8UbmdV7bk?t=53"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">We
are but meat puppets playing with nirvana</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick, I absolutely see the value in
wordplay (DAWW) and do think it's an important part of
science and mathematics.<br>
<br>
I was being perhaps a little too clever in my own mind
with my obtuse DAWW riff above. At the risk of over
parsing (like the risk of explaining a joke) virtuous
DAWW triggered the homophone of the Dao (<span
style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">道</span>)
and its central concept of wu-wei, which is often
inaccurately translated as inaction but closer to right
action / Least (stationary) action in physics for me. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This then triggered lyrics of one of
my favorite songs, <a
href="https://genius.com/Nirvana-plateau-lyrics"
moz-do-not-send="true">Plateau</a> from the Meat
Puppets, "who needs action when you got words". To me,
the line captures your and my relationship where I'm
struggling with generalizing the concept of Action in
Complex Systems and you are working your thoughts out
with words. I find this a healthy dialogue!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">And then I couldn't resist sharing
the MTV unplugged concert where Nirvana covered the Meat
Puppets song with one of the Meat Puppets playing on
stage. The link to Youtube is to that line in the song
in the performance. So the literal Meat Puppet playing
with Nivana mutated to "we are but meat puppets playing
with Nirvana" gave me 15 minutes of interesting private
contemplation of a puppet master animating our puppets
and wooing our puppet minds with Nirvana.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <br>
Certainly too obtuse of references and self-indulgent to
post but what the hell.<br>
<br>
So I really do appreciate your DAWW and was just trying
to join in and play with your dicking. :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>