<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Textbook knowledge:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><i>wu wei </i>is the Taoist close equivalent to Vedic / Buddhist "non-attached action."The most often cited "description" of this idea is Arjuna's dilemma as laid out in the Bhagavad-Gita. To qualify, an action must be "correct" based on a perfect knowledge of all the factors affecting that action, AND, it must be free of "motivation" including desire, fear, ego, etc.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Experiential knowledge:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">wu wei is very akin to "being in the flow" — actions without conscious awareness, each one exactly and precisely correct in context. There is no sense of an "actor" just the actions. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Favorite example:<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">Sesshu's Long Scroll (Landscapes of the Four Seasons) — ink and color washes, 1.25 feet by 51 feet, <i>"Painted by Sesshu Toyo, formerly holder of the first seat at Tine-'tung, <u>on a sunny afternoon </u>in December in the eighteenth year of the Bummei era at the age of sixtey-seven." (emphasis mine)</i><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><i>davew</i><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><i></i><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Sun, Oct 3, 2021, at 10:04 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="overflow-wrap:break-word;"><div>I think about as opposite to nugatory as one could get.<br></div><div class="qt-"><br></div><div class="qt-">Wu wei more like having an affect “get itself done” without making a big noise about doing it. A kind of more efficient getting-done by avoiding the distractions of self-conscious effort.<br></div><div class="qt-"><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" class="qt-"><div class="qt-">On Oct 3, 2021, at 11:35 PM, <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="qt-">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" class="qt-">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div><br></div><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-WordSection1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">Speaking of words, I thought wuwei was interesting. It seems to mean “nugatory”.<br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> <br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">Nick Thompson<br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="qt-">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,Ij17EYApMiN8t3Mmm9A7FtYZSJny8GYj9KJi_9qFqDW4BDng44ZCdRAOmpvMEA5Q9uwiAmvtySRt-GnlSnYsf-KeTfd3USCVj_1TxO26yKweInDWGpYgu3ME&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="qt-">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> <br></div><div style="border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;" class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"><div><b class="qt-">From:</b><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="qt-">On Behalf Of<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stephen Guerin<br></div><div><b class="qt-">Sent:</b><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, October 3, 2021 4:02 PM<br></div><div><b class="qt-">To:</b><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div><b class="qt-">Subject:</b><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate<br></div></div></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> <br></div><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 5:57 PM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div></div><div class="qt-"><blockquote style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;" class="qt-" type="cite"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">Just to be clear – and perhaps nerdishly literal minded – I would NEVER claim that word play alone is science; I would only claim that it has a role to play.<br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> <br></div><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 10:59 AM <<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="qt-"><blockquote style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt;margin-left:4.8pt;" class="qt-" type="cite"><div class="qt-"><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> You might help me distinguish between vicious DAWW and virtuous DAWW. You might exile me. But you probably won’t get me to stop. <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="qt-"><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></p><div><br></div><div>If we follow the virtuous DAWW, it feels like<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mdbg.net%2fchinese%2fdictionary%3fwdqb%3dc%253A%252A%25E6%2597%25A0%25E4%25B8%25BA%252A%26wdrst%3d0&c=E,1,6NKjr0rPrQHfEug3lJFE3AHXuMSXXv2QKNN952DgM7cmiyEWDf3OtLL5oQZT5HU0EP29GkU3REwYBagPNmq31arungH_cMB6hCf8P-aAMVoRjw,,&typo=1" target="_blank" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">wuwei<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span></a>science to me. Who needs<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_(physics)" target="_blank" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">action</a><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>when you got words? <a href="https://youtu.be/Sj8UbmdV7bk?t=53" target="_blank" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">We are but meat puppets playing with nirvana</a>.<br></div><p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"><div>Nick, I absolutely see the value in wordplay (DAWW) and do think it's an important part of science and mathematics.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I was being perhaps a little too clever in my own mind with my obtuse DAWW riff above. At the risk of over parsing (like the risk of explaining a joke) virtuous DAWW triggered the homophone of the Dao (<span style="" class="qt-"><span class="font" style="font-family:"MS Gothic";">道</span></span>) and its central concept of wu-wei, which is often inaccurately translated as inaction but closer to right action / Least (stationary) action in physics for me. <br></div></div></div><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> <br></div></div><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">This then triggered lyrics of one of my favorite songs,<span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fgenius.com%2fNirvana-plateau-lyrics&c=E,1,2GvrTw2WSWTx3IBxVEZqG4474T11-mOLxHb7QY2TXHAU3HYY9bbbKyp4azluFWNnZcUNIOYLn8JBvV_v1NxxzW0KtwlH-reMefytYkKPiQ8RD0rLoHfAQA,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;" class="qt-">Plateau</a><span class="qt-Apple-converted-space"> </span>from the Meat Puppets, "who needs action when you got words". To me, the line captures your and my relationship where I'm struggling with generalizing the concept of Action in Complex Systems and you are working your thoughts out with words. I find this a healthy dialogue!<br></div></div><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"> <br></div></div><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-">And then I couldn't resist sharing the MTV unplugged concert where Nirvana covered the Meat Puppets song with one of the Meat Puppets playing on stage. The link to Youtube is to that line in the song in the performance. So the literal Meat Puppet playing with Nivana mutated to "we are but meat puppets playing with Nirvana" gave me 15 minutes of interesting private contemplation of a puppet master animating our puppets and wooing our puppet minds with Nirvana.<br></div></div><div class="qt-"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="qt-"><div> <br></div><div>Certainly too obtuse of references and self-indulgent to post but what the hell.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So I really do appreciate your DAWW and was just trying to join in and play with your dicking. :-)<br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><span 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class="qt-">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div>5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>