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<p>the schmear of me (that *is* what it *does* and *does* what it
*is*?) got distracted seeking more info on the Gintautus/Hubler
InterReality and was reminded by Hubler's Arbitrons of Utility Fog
which reminded of Smart Dust which generalizes perhaps to
Computronium or Programmable Matter which seems to be implicitly
an idealized medium for ultimate Stigmergy (whatever "ultimate"
might mean).<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/21 9:37 AM, Steve Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2cd02fae-36d2-d9cb-52ab-65e4c26e14bb@swcp.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Gelerntner's Mirror Worlds reminds me of the Gintautis/Hubler
conception of InterReality:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=Z0JinvkAAAAJ&citation_for_view=Z0JinvkAAAAJ:u-x6o8ySG0sC"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=Z0JinvkAAAAJ&citation_for_view=Z0JinvkAAAAJ:u-x6o8ySG0sC</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I brought Vadas down from LANL where he was a PostDoc to give
his spiel on the topic at SfX back in the day, I don't know if
anyone else remembers him from that. <br>
</p>
<p>Hubler taught at the SFI Complex Systems School (I think) until
his death a few years ago. He is probably more well known for
his "Arbitrons".<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/memoriam-alfred-hubler"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/memoriam-alfred-hubler</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can't tell that the interreality stuff ever got traction and
I'm too lazy/stupid to properly follow up on other work that
might cite theirs. Maybe in a parallel universe, one of the
schmear of me is doing that right now instead of bloviating
here.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/21 8:20 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:678370e2-6521-464b-b240-96937e0281e8@www.fastmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
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<style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">David Gelernter, noted computer
scientist, creator of the Linda programming language, victim
of the Unabomber, general A+++le, and, undoubtedly, a Trump
supporter; once wrote an excellent book: <i>Mirror Worlds: or
the Day Software puts the Universe in a Shoebox ... How it
Will Happen and What It Will Mean. </i><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">A mirror world was, essentially,
a set of 'feed-forward' "smart boards."<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">A Smart Board is the apex type
of blackboard: bulletin board, blackboard, smart board.
Stigmergy of all kinds takes place in Smart Boards and the
Smart Board itself is "aware" of what is going on inside
itself and takes an active computational role.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div>On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, at 7:02 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="">
<div dir="auto">
<div>By the way, Nick, blackboard systems like Hearsay had
levels and causation among levels. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>---<br>
</div>
<div>Frank C. Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>505 670-9918<br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 20, 2021,
6:43 AM Frank Wimberly <<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote"
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204,
204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Now <i>that</i> sounds like s blackboard system.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>---<br>
</div>
<div>Frank C. Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>505 670-9918<br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 20,
2021, 12:15 AM Jochen Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote"
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204,
204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Yes. Stigmergy always reminds me of
ants looking for food using pheromone trails. The
classic swarm intelligence example described in
the book of Eric Bonabeau, Guy Theraulaz and Marco
Dorigo. In this case stigmergy can be considered
as a phenomenon where agents collectively use the
<b>environment as a shared memory </b>(the
pheromone is stored in the environment and it
contains the memory where to find the food
source). Good point! I guess Russ will like this
point of view.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">-J.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,
0, 0);" align="left">
<div>-------- Original message --------<br>
</div>
<div>From: ⛧ glen <<a
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div>Date: 10/20/21 07:16 (GMT+01:00)<br>
</div>
<div>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and
[biological] development<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>But it's a specific kind of memory: a) shared
and b) abused or misused. There should be a
decoupling of the objectives of the writer from
the objectives of the reader. A good example is a
hermit crab using a soup can as its shell. Or an
urban kid mistaking modern bananas for "natural"
food.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The "indirectness" in the definition obscures
some nuance that needs some attention.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On October 19, 2021 8:56:28 PM PDT, Marcus
Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>I don’t actually get what is interesting
about the term. In computer science it would be
a “blackboard system” or simply “memory”.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>From: Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson<br>
</div>
<div>>Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 8:34 PM<br>
</div>
<div>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div>>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and
[biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>Ugh. I was making fun of myself. If
everything is stigmergy then the word has no
interesting use.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>> I am in danger of confusing it with niche
construction. The concept offers an alternative
to Lamarckian mechanisms for an organism to direct
its own evolution. It's like the inheritance of
acquired environments. I think of it as including
such phenomena as squirrels and jays putting
acorns in the ground and thus providing an
environment rich with food for the winter and
also, perhaps, in the very long run, future oak
trees. In some sense, the environment that
selects the organism is an environment that is
selected by the organism.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>I think the word does have a use, but only
if we distinguish between things left behind that
positively affect those that follow. To my
surprise, the word is apparently of recent origin
having been specifically invented to apply to ant
pheromone trails in the fifties. So, I suppose we
might narrow it's meaning to objects left to
convey information and leave niche construction to
apply to objects that provide shelter, nutrition
or other benefits to the finder, eg., acorns,
beaver dams,<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>Thanks for pitching in, everybody. You
have helped to drive me out of my post travel
lassitude.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>Nick<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 8:36 PM Frank
Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>Aren't we all immersed in stygmergy
continuously while we're alive and maybe before
and after? This is a possible interpretation of
Nick's comment that everything is stygmergy.<br>
</div>
<div>>---<br>
</div>
<div>>Frank C. Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div>>140 Calle Ojo Feliz,<br>
</div>
<div>>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>505 670-9918<br>
</div>
<div>>Santa Fe, NM<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 8:29 PM Marcus
Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>What I was driving at is that nature
doesn’t give a damn whether we categorize certain
globs of stuff as “agents” or “environment” or
“transactions”. Stigmergy could be going all the
time in some subtle way we can’t discern because
we are looking at the pieces the wrong way.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>> On Oct 19, 2021, at 1:05 PM, uǝlƃ
☤>$ <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>><br>
</div>
<div>>> To be clear though, this requires a
flexible understanding of "agent" or whatever's
doing the indirect coordinating "through" the
environment. I.e. "stygmergy" isn't very well
defined.<br>
</div>
<div>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> On 10/19/21 12:58 PM, Marcus
Daniels wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>>> Game of Life has been shown to be
universal<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> <a
href="https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life</a>
<<a
href="https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life</a>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> I would expect there are many
“intermediate lambda” CAs that behave this way,
and so could implement any simulation manifesting
stigmergy.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *From:* Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>>
*On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2021
12:40 PM<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy,
CA's, and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Interesting point. What do the
others think?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> I think if you start with an "X"
at the top and consider the X as your agent and
the space to the left and right as the environment
then yes, we would have a kind of stygmergy model
for an agent which interacts in a two dimensional
world (one space and one time dimension). It is a
rather limited model though. I am not sure if it
is useful :-/<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> -J.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> -------- Original message --------<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> From: <a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Date: 10/19/21 21:28 (GMT+01:00)<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group' <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy,
CA's, and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Thanks, Jochen, for answering.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Let me try to stretch the point
and see if I can bring you on board. In the first
place, mimimally, stygmergy need not involve
sociality. So, If I go out on a hike and cut
blazes on trees on my way out so I can find my way
home, that is stygmergy in good standing, right?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Now let’s try a very simple ca
where the rule is, if nothing is written, write x;
if x, white o beside; if o, write x beside.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> X<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> OXO<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> XOXOX<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> ETC.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Now, if we consider what is
written at each stage as a thing put out in the
environment and the “rules” what the organism
brings to the table then each line is the joint
product of the previous line and the rule, hence
stygmergy.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Am I stretching a point. Is
everything not stygmergy?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> N<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Nick Thompson<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> <a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a>>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> <a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a>
<<a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *From:* Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>>>
*On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2021
1:05 PM<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy,
CA's, and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> No, CAs are not a good model for
stygmergy IMHO. Stygmergy is as Wikipedia says a
mechanism of indirect coordination through the
environment. For example: ants which exploit a
food source by following a pheromone trail. Or
termites which build a nest.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> In Cellular Automata there is no
clear distinction between agent and environment.
They are just a grid of states which evolves step
by step by updating the cells with a transition
rule or function.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> The other type of collective
intelligence besides stygmergy is swarm formation.
The individual member is attracted to the group as
a whole but repelled by other individuals. You
know the classic Boids rules which govern fish
swarms and bird flocks: "stay close to the group
but keep away from your neighbors".<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> For more complex things you
probably need a code. If the individuals are
smart, then a few rules are enough - holy books
have typically only a few MB. If the individuals
are lifeless molecules, then the code can be
several GB (a human genome has roughly 3 GB).<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Hope that helps a bit? You are
lucky to have such a smart grandson! I believe
Frank has grandchildren too.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Jochen<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> -------- Original message --------<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> From: <a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Date: 10/19/21 20:15 (GMT+01:00)<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group' <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's,
and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Friends,<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Beware. As usual, I am trying to
get you to think for me.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> My grandson is working on a
regeneration project in his freshman biolab
(Planaria) and his sources and texts are replete
with cognitive language like “signal” and “memory”
etc., which implies that as the worm regenerates
it is influenced by a guiding idea of what it is
producing. My basic intuition, as you know, that
this doesn’t happen in human cognition, let alone
worm regeneration and that processes that produce
a functional head from a slice of the rear end of
a flatworm have no idea what they are doing even
when they are done. Thus I imagine an advancing
edge of structure with each new bit influencing
the rules by which the next bit . Which, of
course, puts me in mind both of stygmergy and of
Cellular Automata. So to my questions:<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Are Cellular Automata a good model
for Stygmergy?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Is Stygmergy a good model for
organismic development?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Why? Or Why not? Discuss.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Also, is there a good website,
citizen-friendly, steep learning curve, where my
grandson and I could explore the relation between
developmental processes and ca’s. I looked at
NewLogo Library and did not find there any models
of regeneration, but may not have known where to
look. I did find THIS <<a
href="https://distill.pub/2020/growing-ca/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://distill.pub/2020/growing-ca/</a>>
which deep down in the Table of Contents seemed to
have three regeneration models including one named
“Planaria”, but I could no see how to go further
with it. If somebody could have a look at it and
give me some tips for how to use it, I would be
ever so grateful.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div>glen ⛧<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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