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<p>Gelerntner's Mirror Worlds reminds me of the Gintautis/Hubler
conception of InterReality:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=Z0JinvkAAAAJ&citation_for_view=Z0JinvkAAAAJ:u-x6o8ySG0sC">https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=Z0JinvkAAAAJ&citation_for_view=Z0JinvkAAAAJ:u-x6o8ySG0sC</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I brought Vadas down from LANL where he was a PostDoc to give his
spiel on the topic at SfX back in the day, I don't know if anyone
else remembers him from that. <br>
</p>
<p>Hubler taught at the SFI Complex Systems School (I think) until
his death a few years ago. He is probably more well known for his
"Arbitrons".<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/memoriam-alfred-hubler">https://www.santafe.edu/news-center/news/memoriam-alfred-hubler</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can't tell that the interreality stuff ever got traction and
I'm too lazy/stupid to properly follow up on other work that might
cite theirs. Maybe in a parallel universe, one of the schmear of
me is doing that right now instead of bloviating here.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/21 8:20 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:678370e2-6521-464b-b240-96937e0281e8@www.fastmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">David Gelernter, noted computer
scientist, creator of the Linda programming language, victim of
the Unabomber, general A+++le, and, undoubtedly, a Trump
supporter; once wrote an excellent book: <i>Mirror Worlds: or
the Day Software puts the Universe in a Shoebox ... How it
Will Happen and What It Will Mean. </i><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">A mirror world was, essentially, a
set of 'feed-forward' "smart boards."<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">A Smart Board is the apex type of
blackboard: bulletin board, blackboard, smart board. Stigmergy
of all kinds takes place in Smart Boards and the Smart Board
itself is "aware" of what is going on inside itself and takes an
active computational role.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
</div>
<div>On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, at 7:02 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="">
<div dir="auto">
<div>By the way, Nick, blackboard systems like Hearsay had
levels and causation among levels. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>---<br>
</div>
<div>Frank C. Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>505 670-9918<br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 20, 2021,
6:43 AM Frank Wimberly <<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote"
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204,
204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Now <i>that</i> sounds like s blackboard system.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>---<br>
</div>
<div>Frank C. Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>505 670-9918<br>
</div>
<div>Santa Fe, NM<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="qt-gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 20, 2021,
12:15 AM Jochen Fromm <<a
href="mailto:jofr@cas-group.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jofr@cas-group.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote"
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204,
204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1px;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Yes. Stigmergy always reminds me of
ants looking for food using pheromone trails. The
classic swarm intelligence example described in the
book of Eric Bonabeau, Guy Theraulaz and Marco
Dorigo. In this case stigmergy can be considered as
a phenomenon where agents collectively use the <b>environment
as a shared memory </b>(the pheromone is stored
in the environment and it contains the memory where
to find the food source). Good point! I guess Russ
will like this point of view.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">-J.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0, 0,
0);" align="left">
<div>-------- Original message --------<br>
</div>
<div>From: ⛧ glen <<a
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div>Date: 10/20/21 07:16 (GMT+01:00)<br>
</div>
<div>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and
[biological] development<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>But it's a specific kind of memory: a) shared and
b) abused or misused. There should be a decoupling
of the objectives of the writer from the objectives
of the reader. A good example is a hermit crab using
a soup can as its shell. Or an urban kid mistaking
modern bananas for "natural" food.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The "indirectness" in the definition obscures
some nuance that needs some attention.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On October 19, 2021 8:56:28 PM PDT, Marcus
Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>I don’t actually get what is interesting
about the term. In computer science it would be a
“blackboard system” or simply “memory”.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>From: Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson<br>
</div>
<div>>Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 8:34 PM<br>
</div>
<div>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div>>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and
[biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>Ugh. I was making fun of myself. If
everything is stigmergy then the word has no
interesting use.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>> I am in danger of confusing it with niche
construction. The concept offers an alternative to
Lamarckian mechanisms for an organism to direct its
own evolution. It's like the inheritance of
acquired environments. I think of it as including
such phenomena as squirrels and jays putting acorns
in the ground and thus providing an environment rich
with food for the winter and also, perhaps, in the
very long run, future oak trees. In some sense, the
environment that selects the organism is an
environment that is selected by the organism.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>I think the word does have a use, but only if
we distinguish between things left behind that
positively affect those that follow. To my
surprise, the word is apparently of recent origin
having been specifically invented to apply to ant
pheromone trails in the fifties. So, I suppose we
might narrow it's meaning to objects left to convey
information and leave niche construction to apply to
objects that provide shelter, nutrition or other
benefits to the finder, eg., acorns, beaver dams,<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>Thanks for pitching in, everybody. You have
helped to drive me out of my post travel lassitude.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>Nick<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 8:36 PM Frank
Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>Aren't we all immersed in stygmergy
continuously while we're alive and maybe before and
after? This is a possible interpretation of Nick's
comment that everything is stygmergy.<br>
</div>
<div>>---<br>
</div>
<div>>Frank C. Wimberly<br>
</div>
<div>>140 Calle Ojo Feliz,<br>
</div>
<div>>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>505 670-9918<br>
</div>
<div>>Santa Fe, NM<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 8:29 PM Marcus Daniels
<<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>What I was driving at is that nature doesn’t
give a damn whether we categorize certain globs of
stuff as “agents” or “environment” or
“transactions”. Stigmergy could be going all the
time in some subtle way we can’t discern because we
are looking at the pieces the wrong way.<br>
</div>
<div>><br>
</div>
<div>>> On Oct 19, 2021, at 1:05 PM, uǝlƃ ☤>$
<<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>><br>
</div>
<div>>> To be clear though, this requires a
flexible understanding of "agent" or whatever's
doing the indirect coordinating "through" the
environment. I.e. "stygmergy" isn't very well
defined.<br>
</div>
<div>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> On 10/19/21 12:58 PM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>>>> Game of Life has been shown to be
universal<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> <a
href="https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life</a>
<<a
href="https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://uwe-repository.worktribe.com/output/822575/turing-machine-universality-of-the-game-of-life</a>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> I would expect there are many
“intermediate lambda” CAs that behave this way, and
so could implement any simulation manifesting
stigmergy.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *From:* Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>>
*On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2021
12:40 PM<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy,
CA's, and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Interesting point. What do the
others think?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> I think if you start with an "X" at
the top and consider the X as your agent and the
space to the left and right as the environment then
yes, we would have a kind of stygmergy model for an
agent which interacts in a two dimensional world
(one space and one time dimension). It is a rather
limited model though. I am not sure if it is useful
:-/<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> -J.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> -------- Original message --------<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> From: <a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Date: 10/19/21 21:28 (GMT+01:00)<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group' <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy,
CA's, and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Thanks, Jochen, for answering.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Let me try to stretch the point and
see if I can bring you on board. In the first
place, mimimally, stygmergy need not involve
sociality. So, If I go out on a hike and cut blazes
on trees on my way out so I can find my way home,
that is stygmergy in good standing, right?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Now let’s try a very simple ca where
the rule is, if nothing is written, write x; if x,
white o beside; if o, write x beside.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> X<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> OXO<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> XOXOX<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> ETC.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Now, if we consider what is written
at each stage as a thing put out in the environment
and the “rules” what the organism brings to the
table then each line is the joint product of the
previous line and the rule, hence stygmergy.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Am I stretching a point. Is
everything not stygmergy?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> N<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Nick Thompson<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> <a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> <a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a>
<<a
href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *From:* Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>>>
*On Behalf Of *Jochen Fromm<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2021
1:05 PM<br>
</div>
<div>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy,
CA's, and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> No, CAs are not a good model for
stygmergy IMHO. Stygmergy is as Wikipedia says a
mechanism of indirect coordination through the
environment. For example: ants which exploit a food
source by following a pheromone trail. Or termites
which build a nest.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> In Cellular Automata there is no
clear distinction between agent and environment.
They are just a grid of states which evolves step by
step by updating the cells with a transition rule or
function.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> The other type of collective
intelligence besides stygmergy is swarm formation.
The individual member is attracted to the group as a
whole but repelled by other individuals. You know
the classic Boids rules which govern fish swarms and
bird flocks: "stay close to the group but keep away
from your neighbors".<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> For more complex things you probably
need a code. If the individuals are smart, then a
few rules are enough - holy books have typically
only a few MB. If the individuals are lifeless
molecules, then the code can be several GB (a human
genome has roughly 3 GB).<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Hope that helps a bit? You are lucky
to have such a smart grandson! I believe Frank has
grandchildren too.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Jochen<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> -------- Original message --------<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> From: <a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Date: 10/19/21 20:15 (GMT+01:00)<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group' <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's,
and [biological] development<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Friends,<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Beware. As usual, I am trying to
get you to think for me.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> My grandson is working on a
regeneration project in his freshman biolab
(Planaria) and his sources and texts are replete
with cognitive language like “signal” and “memory”
etc., which implies that as the worm regenerates it
is influenced by a guiding idea of what it is
producing. My basic intuition, as you know, that
this doesn’t happen in human cognition, let alone
worm regeneration and that processes that produce a
functional head from a slice of the rear end of a
flatworm have no idea what they are doing even when
they are done. Thus I imagine an advancing edge of
structure with each new bit influencing the rules by
which the next bit . Which, of course, puts me in
mind both of stygmergy and of Cellular Automata. So
to my questions:<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Are Cellular Automata a good model
for Stygmergy?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Is Stygmergy a good model for
organismic development?<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Why? Or Why not? Discuss.<br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>><br>
</div>
<div>>>> Also, is there a good website,
citizen-friendly, steep learning curve, where my
grandson and I could explore the relation between
developmental processes and ca’s. I looked at
NewLogo Library and did not find there any models of
regeneration, but may not have known where to look.
I did find THIS <<a
href="https://distill.pub/2020/growing-ca/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://distill.pub/2020/growing-ca/</a>>
which deep down in the Table of Contents seemed to
have three regeneration models including one named
“Planaria”, but I could no see how to go further
with it. If somebody could have a look at it and
give me some tips for how to use it, I would be ever
so grateful.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div>glen ⛧<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
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