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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/21 10:48 AM, Edward Angel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:45CF5633-EAA9-4F57-AE7F-9D21323ACC02@cs.unm.edu">
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Reasonableness is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt many
Democrats would consider their economic and social positions
reasonable.</blockquote>
I agree with this but also wonder how the social/political
discussion/playground can be shifted/reframed such that there is
more room for alliances among subfactions, overlap of interests,
etc. It feels that our strong bimodal distribution across the axes
implied in Eric's analysis of Packer's essay yields a no-man's land
that is hard to cross. As much as I wanted much more radical
ideas/policies/actions from Biden, I think he *does* represent
someone who can straddle all that better than Sanders or Warren
might have. I was a fan of Buttegeig because of that, while being
more generationally relevant to those who will have to/get to live
in the future we are paving with best intentions right now.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:45CF5633-EAA9-4F57-AE7F-9D21323ACC02@cs.unm.edu">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Getting primaried is an issue for all of them.
Kinzinger is out. Cheney is in an enormous flight to get
reniminated and Romney has to contend with far right opposition
in Utah.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ed<br class="">
<div class="">
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<div class="">_______________________</div>
<div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
Ed Angel<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology
and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)<br class="">
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of
New Mexico<br class="">
<br class="">
1017 Sierra Pinon</div>
<div class="">Santa Fe, NM 87501<br class="">
505-984-0136 (home)<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span> <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a
href="mailto:angel@cs.unm.edu"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">angel@cs.unm.edu</a></div>
<div class="">505-453-4944 (cell) <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a
href="http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel</a><br
class="">
</div>
</span></span>
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 30, 2021, at 8:12 AM, Frank Wimberly
<<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Does anyone understand why a
couple of reasonable Senate Republicans (Romney,
Kinzinger, Cheney, ...) don't vote with the Democrats
for the Biden bills? Getting "primaried" isn't an issue
for all of them.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" class="">---<br
class="">
Frank C. Wimberly<br class="">
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br class="">
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br class="">
<br class="">
505 670-9918<br class="">
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 30, 2021,
6:18 AM David Eric Smith <<a
href="mailto:desmith@santafe.edu"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">desmith@santafe.edu</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"
class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 29, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Steve
Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class="">
<p
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"
class="">excellent reference/article...
thanks.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">I agree, Marcus; thanks. I was
struck that not only do I wish I could write
that way; I wish I could _think_ that way.
There are few thoughts I have had that aren’t
already contained in Packer’s synthesis, in
forms compatible with or better than the ones I
would have given. (Usually those with which I
overlap aren’t different enough that I consider
his take on them a lot “better”: mostly I think
he chooses well the things I would front. The
“better” part mostly comes from a view that goes
well beyond any that I could have commanded, and
much better ability to arrange it all into a
coherent layout.)</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<p
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"
class="">Is it a 4 component spring model,
or is a four body problem in the orbital
mechanics sense... probably no harder than
the three body problem?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">But I think the whole core of
Packer’s article is that it is not merely 4, but
2.x 2.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There are axes of stress, and
visible fractures along the first two principle
components of stress. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The Left-Right axis has resolved
itself, in the current era, into a kind of
cultural-status axis, with educational markers
being a big part. But the axis is somehow more
and different than only that, as it has
historically moved through primacy of other
dichotomies that can still be seen, while
retaining its essential nature: Open vs. Closed,
Cosmopolitan vs. Parochial, Communitarian vs.
Dominance-ordered. None of these seems quite
adequate as I write them, but something along
that line.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The Up-Down axis is probably about
winners versus losers, itself existing along
several dimensions that have become correlated.
It can be conditions of living, or hope versus
despair w.r.t. power or agency as well as wealth
or safety. That is why Packer sets the Just up
as an uprising against the Smart, and the Real
as an uprising against the Free. The nature of
the uprising and the stress driving it is in a
sense the same, and the establishment and the
insurgency sort of remain within whichever silos
they started in. Mostly because that phase is
still fairly young.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Anything that becomes organized, it
seems, becomes available as a tool to entrench
advantage in a setting where competition never
relents.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Eric</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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