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p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;"><i>"Nature abhors a category"</i> sayeth Nick. But categories are but a mere byproduct of an even more abhorrent practice \u2014 any use of "is." Category assignment may leave an event of a thing writhing on the plain, but saying that "X"<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"> is an event of a thing kills it dead, dead, dead.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Sat, Oct 30, 2021, at 10:03 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="overflow-wrap:break-word;"><div class="qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Sorry for bad typos. My eyes are hopeless in the morning. Correction below.<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-quotation">I also regret my answer. I still like the question, \u201cWhat do categories want?\u201d. I take it as, \u201cWhat hopeless endeavor does a commitment to a category in thought commit one to. First answer: \u201cJust one more instance.\u201d Second answer: \u201cFirm Boundaries\u201d. Nature abhors a category. To assign an event or a thing to a category is to pierce it with a vector of one\u2019s own choosing and leave it writhing on the plain of Life. Still, just as we are hunters by nature, so are we category-assigners. Evolutionarily speaking, we have been abducted by abduction. <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> thompnickson2@gmail.com <thompnickson2@gmail.com> <br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 30, 2021 9:39 AM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam@redfish.com><br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [FRIAM] we are lost<br></div><p></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Roger,<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">I also regret my answer. But I still like the question. I take it as, \u201cWhat hopeless endeavor does a commitment to categories in though commit one to. First answer: \u201cJust one more instance.\u201d Second answer: \u201cFirm Boundaries\u201d. Nature abhors a category. To assign an event or an object to a category is to piece it with a vector of one\u2019s own choosing and leaving writhing on the plain of Life. Still, just as we are hunters by nature, so are we category-assigners. Evolutionarily speaking, we have been abducted by abduction. <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Critchlow<br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 29, 2021 6:39 PM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] we are lost<br></div><p></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div id="qt-gmail-:9ry"><p class="qt-MsoNormal">I was asking what categories, eg monads, comonads, all these abstractions on the abstractions of mathematics, want, since that might help me understand how they see their purpose, given that I was already being asked about the purpose of a platonic solid.<br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">I hadn't thought about the prehistoric models of platonic solids crafted in rock, they can have purposes like other material objects. Nor had I considered making the jump from abstract mathematical constructs to groups of people sharing characteristics.<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">And I was being silly, but I was provoked.<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">-- rec --<br></p></div></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 1:36 PM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-color:currentcolor;border-top-style:none;border-top-width:medium;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style="">Will AIs want the same things I want? I think Roger was just being silly, but `categories\u2019 could be wrangled into to some vaguely adjacent thing like typed computer programs for autonomous control systems in a robot. Let\u2019s call it a careful robot. Will all intelligent life be like humans and will they want love and recognition? Why must that be the case? Why must it be true for humans? Why does HR assume I even want a safe space? I\u2019m reminded of George Packer\u2019s Free America, Smart America, Real America and Just America. None of them really gave a damn about the others as far as I can tell. It is just a model, of course.<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style=""> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style=""><a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/george-packer-four-americas/619012/" target="_blank">https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/george-packer-four-americas/619012/</a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style=""> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style=""> <br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style=""></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a><br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 28, 2021 11:30 AM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] we are lost<br></div><p></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal" style=""> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Ok, So, Marcus,<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969quotation">> What do categories want?<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969quotation"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969quotation">Love, recognition and safety? Someone phone HR and get the ball rolling on a new policy!<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Spoken from the high perch of Irony. Irony is like wormwood, delightful in small doses but ultimately toxic. Do we not all want love, recognition, and safety? Do we also want excitement and challenge. Go figure! Some of us crave more of the one; some more of the other. Given the contradiction between those things, can we expect the right balance be guaranteed for each and every one of us, for all time? No. Of course not. But is that reason to mock human striving toward these goals? Or to mock Utilitarian attempts to facilitate their achievement? No. I don\u2019t think so. Irony is a guilty pleasure. Even though I use it and enjoy it, I have to admit that it is a an abdication and fails as a policy. <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Nick<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Nick Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com" target="_blank">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</a><br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/" target="_blank">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</a><br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"></p><div>-----Original Message-----<br></div><div>From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels<br></div><div>Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 8:18 AM<br></div><div>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] we are lost<br></div><p></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">> So, not only do we attribute teleology to inanimate objects, weather, animals, and people, but also to the platonic solids. Which probably leads to:<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">><br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">> What do categories want?<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Love, recognition and safety? Someone phone HR and get the ball rolling on a new policy!<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Marcus<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext"> <br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a> un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">archives:<br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-gmail-m-5667002389619035969msoplaintext">1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</span></a><br></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div> 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><p></p></blockquote></div></div><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div>5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>