<div dir="auto">Remind me never to go to a casino. The last time I was in one was to meet my lawyer whose office was in ABQ for lunch so we could split the driving time. I almost choked from the cigarette smoke.<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u><div><div style="font-family:Arial">SteveS,<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">Your intuitions are spot on, based on my experience. Although casinos can't ban cell phones, you may not use one at the table - must step away and not have a hand in play. The do detect and ban all kinds of electronic transmissions — radio to infrared and if you have such a transmitter on your person you are quickly escorted out and banned. Receivers are harder to detect except when actively 'receiving' but same result if discovered. <br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">Blackjack has a published 'standard game' written up years ago — casinos will actually give you a copy — that maximizes the players odds of winning, at least long term. However there are lots of tricks employed to remove even that vestige of a chance, like mandatory side bets, and paying even odds instead of 3/2 for a blackjack if your bet is below some minimum.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">Casinos are also masters of facial recognition — probably better tech than anything any government (including China) or Facebook can command. Once banned, even hookers, you will never get more than a few feet into a big casino before security descends — even if disguised.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">Cash game poker, the house takes a standard rake — 10% up to a limit — of the pot as table rent and dealers receive tips plus a minimum wage hourly rate. Seniority determines which dealers get to service the high limit (hence high tips) tables.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">Tournaments: house takes a portion of the entry fee and rest goes into pot. Dealers get hourly rate, plus tips are collected from winners and distributed evenly.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">Poker is luck plus very astute inter-personal observation. One of my favorite players, Daniel Negreanu, has a Master Class that provides all kinds of technical skill, but he does not play that way, instead seat of the pants observations and table talk determine his strategy. Not that he is unaware of or lacks the technical chops, they are just not the ultimate arbitrator of play — mostly because all the others in tournaments at his level have the same degree of technical skill.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">I did some consulting to casinos a few years back when Highlands was trying to start a casino / hospitality program. I have never seen such sophisticated and secure systems before or since.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">James Swain has a series of mystery books — first in series is <i>Grift Sense</i> — with plots that center on one major attempt to defraud a casino and many little side plots that reveal all the different attempts to "cheat" casinos. Fun reads.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">A strategy for short term winning at roulette: bet 10 each on two of the 1/3 sections of the table (rows or columns) plus one of the 1:1 sections (even/odd, red/black, top half-bottom have of the board), plus 1 dollar on the 0-00 line (half odds but both covered). However, this will not work if you play more than a 10-15 minutes because it only takes 4.5 times when none of your bets hit before you are wiped out. This apparently works because the wheel DOES have a bias, mostly from the way the dealer sends the ball around the wheel. Watch the history board for patterns that reveal the ever so slight but real bias.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div>On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Steve Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="m_-2038111780130941466qt"><p>DaveW-<br></p><p>Congratulations (or condolences) on your move to Vegas. Another
reference gave me the sense you might be at least *wintering*
there.<br></p><p>I probably would not be surprised (though shocked) by what
Casinos can ban. I didn't mean to suggest that they didn't have
the self-granted authority to ban cell phones, etc. but rather
doing so would severely impact their popularity among the hordes
of marks who happily come to give up their spare (or not so) cash
to feed the bright lights and other egregious displays of wealth. <br></p><p>The Thomas Bass rendition of Farmer et alia foray into exploiting
manufacturing/wear biases in roulette wheels <a href="https://www.thomasbass.com/the_eudaemonic_pie_1360.htm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Eudamonic
Pie</a> suggests that today the same effort would be "trivial"
with nothing more perhaps than a cell phone camera/computer
observing from a shirt pocket. Of course, those biases have
long since been ameliorated one way or another I am sure. <br></p><p>You describe poker tables as the one place the house has no stake
in the game. I have to admit that i don't know who pays the
rent/real-estate on the table? Is there a flat-rate rake-off from
every pot? Does the dealer live on tips?<br></p><p>When the Native Casinos opened here, my elderDotter was turning
18 and she had a friend who thought she wanted to grow up to be a
blackjack dealer so they frequented the casino. I don't know that
my daughter lost/spent much money on it, but she never had any
illusions that she could "beat the house". I think their game
was blackjack which I understand has the built-in tiny but
positive bias to the house (the house wins all ties by
convention?). I told both daughters as they approached college
that I had saved enough for them to be able to go through a BS/BA
degree with only part-time/summer work contribution (or healthy
scholarship) on their part. I suggested that I cash it out and
take it to the casino and drop it all on red or black (Roulette)
with the understanding that their odds ware just a smidge short of
doubling their money vs losing it all (the one green slot
represents the house advantage?). The conceit was that if they
*won* they would then have enough cash to "coast" through college
as *many* of their peers seemed to be supported or else if they
*lost* they could forego any implied obligation of going to
college. They both honestly mulled it for at least 10 seconds
before they rolled their eyes and said "no way!". <br></p><p>I'm curious how you feel about my claim that the inter-personal
dynamic at the poker table is in some sense more important than
the technical skill? My point in your case would be that you
would be *at* a table where the technical skill level was roughly
even, right? Tournament play tends to support that, right? As
you advance, the skill level of your table-peers increases until
you either step up YOUR game or fail out of the game? <br></p><p>I think of you as having a strong mix of technical approach,
intuition, and likely to engage in the social-emotional game as
well (e.g. bluffing).<br></p><p>- Steve<br></p><div>On 11/8/21 9:42 AM, Prof David West
wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family:Arial">You would be surprised at what
casinos can ban. Maybe even more surprised at the, not
necessarily AI, software tools they use to analyze video feeds
and pounce on any kind of statistically improbabilities. Most
casinos in Vegas have tools, like mandatory side bets with very
low odds, that erase the near equal odds of blackjack.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">The only 'safe' gambling is poker
where the house has no direct interest in the outcome.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">As DES stated, winning is a matter
of patience and losing antes only, until you get good hand and
then skill of playing that hand for maximum return — playing
less worse than the others at the table.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">I am living in Vegas now and
playing small tournaments fairly regularly.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div>On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Steve Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="m_-2038111780130941466qt-qt"><p><br></p><div>On 11/7/21 12:02 PM, David Eric
Smith wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite">There
must be some kind of “Back to the future” movie that can be
made out of this. Doyne Farmer in Vegas all over again, but
with current-era AI in place of toe-operated computers. <br></blockquote><p>Yah! Surely Casinos can't begin to restrict
computers(phones)/earbuds, etc. on the gaming floor.<br></p><p>Strange coincidence that my sister went to Kindergarten with
Vance Packard (Norm's brother) in Silver City long before they
all became eagle scouts and then the Chaos Cabal. We moved
away the next year and I doubt I ever met any of them back
then. I came to LANL just before (I think) Doyne came... I
seem to remember that Norm was there for a summer... and soon
came the (in)famous CA conference... As I remember it the
game of interest (aside from Life, what with Conway in
attendance) was GO with a lot of speculation about the
implications of local vs global "intelligence"... I was
intrigued by HashLife and it's implications for finding
structure at many scales... I still hope for someone with more
follow-through than I have to implement a more redundant but
"thorough" space-time decomposition (an N-1xN-1 kernel over
the 4 positions at each "zoom" level).<br></p><p>Regarding poker.. I played some low-stakes in college and saw
there were two things to take in: the main technical skill
was to simply play less poorly than the other players at the
table and that was entirely overshadowed by the
social-engineering games of bluffing, etc. The very simple
game-theoretic aspect of not depleting your own stake before
you catch a "lucky streak" going your way was also a good
understanding. I played with my "boss" and a number of peers
at the time and realized that it was more about jockeying for
position at work and drinking beer than it was about
winning/losing. I think the most I ever lost/won was on the
order of $20-$40 which in those days was roughly 1-2 shifts
wages... a LOT if I joined them weekly... too rich for my
blood! I still feel that *technically* playing well really
means just playing less badly. Blackjack being even more
obviously so?<br></p><blockquote type="cite"><div><br></div><div>Yikes.<br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 7, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Marcus
Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">My inclination would be
to invest in standoff biometrics (e.g. Eulerian
Video Amplification) and then find the best poker
playing code. It ought to be possible to
automate and perhaps get rich in the process.<br></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div><div style="border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div><b>From:</b><span> </span>Friam
<<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Eric
Charles<br></div><div><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Sunday,
November 7, 2021 7:42 AM<br></div><div><b>To:</b><span> </span>The
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a>><br></div><div><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[FRIAM] lurking<br></div></div></div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div><div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I DID read all the
thread so far... but I'm curious how we got to
one of the starting points: "as cringy as it
may be for some dork to be proud of their
Poker prowess" <br></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I am
somewhat satisfied with my Poker
mediocrity, certainly not proud of
it... but if I met someone who was
ACTUALLY startlingly better than I
am, and they were proud of that, I
wouldn't find it cringy. (Ditto in
my other hobbies, like Aikido.)<br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I guess
if I met someone who had a slight
edge in their drunk-buddy home
games, and they were super proud
of THAT, then i would find it
cringy. (Ditto someone who's the
best Aikido student in their small
dojo, but who's obviously not more
than that.) <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When I
see academic work on game theory,
it's usually of lower quality than
what the good poker players are
doing these days. Mastering the
game is crazy hard, and being able
to sit down and implement a
coherent and winning strategy for
40-80 hours a week is not easy.
So... why would that be cringe? <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div></div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Wed, Nov 3, 2021
at 1:42 PM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div>Ok, part of the story is knowing what
is really needed for reproducibility as a
function of context.<br></div><div>With that, then there's the matter of
how much control is afforded. Is it
programmable in predictable ways?<br></div><div><br></div><div>-----Original Message-----<br></div><div>From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$<br></div><div>Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 8:20
AM<br></div><div>To:<span> </span><a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">friam@redfish.com</a><br></div><div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking<br></div><div><br></div><div>Yeah, I agree. But context is Queen.
When the virus is created in the lab, it's
done with real stuff distilled from the
soupy world. Given enough of a difference
in context, the robot may not be able to
re-constitute the life because the soupy
world surrounding the robot doesn't have
the real stuff required. Such drastic
context changes could be a result of
translation through space or time. E.g.
trying to construct, on Mars, an organism
read/serialized on earth. Or e.g. trying
to construct an organism read millennia
ago, millennia in the future. It's naive
to talk about "science" as if any given
read-out formula thereby expressed is
*complete*. Science is abstraction to a
large extent ... maybe not as abstracting
as math, of course. And science must
remain "open" precisely because any
formula it expresses is suspect, perhaps
incomplete.<br></div><div><br></div><div>My favorite example is the magic
brewing stick:<span> </span><a href="https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/</a><span> </span>It
*was* scientific to lay out the magic
stick as a critical element of the brewing
process, only to discover later that the
stick isn't the important part.<br></div><div><br></div><div>On 11/2/21 2:39 PM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br></div><div>> Even if that were so, viruses
have been pulled from history or tweaked
and created in the lab. So we have a
design specification, and the means to
make it. One could imagine a robot
fabricating the close-to-the-metal machine
too. There is a story one can write down
how it is done. If there is no story, it
is not science we are talking about, it is
something else. <span> </span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--<span> </span><br></div><div>"Better to be slapped with the truth
than kissed with a lie."<br></div><div><span>☤</span>>$
uǝlƃ<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -.
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listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <span> </span><a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe<span> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,zW4gfnCEw-aapRghh7ny5t03MK3Rq3qBzZPN7MbtdXMnfOx5f1a4BOQ_kZjD5TYhhqAHjIi_GHC0cpNID7QmaQdIJEXPdJvp7e2YSj9T-Q,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,42WSfvOtpfV6Y4enUg6wuYty46Wym2X7PyXyWfqyenKLBcLVwb23M3brrQe1Ygpnu_evLvZtxEK7bFkcshitkPmAQPpH4xkXwt8LCX6FnP03&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div> 5/2017 thru present<span> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,iXEKOh_9svoFHHsCWA0TbwlILOY3IsE9XdwRauUf8WPQ2GKKbDvhQxuC-IF8qq3KWrXqLIrNxnxVLUtsqex7IJejGUSNsMIb8RUoRuriAA,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <span> </span><a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -.
..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <span> </span><a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe<span> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,xOjquKj_8PwgYgPetFZ4iffchk0Hsdj7KqKj_7lgxEu0hJ4JKtFeVvWGlSzPBqsqqlGfsC7QC4-6YEI60Sn8KQ-dv4hRIYgns3yIkdh09Q,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,OtAeUIEXCxUwWlqYdvcpIascVLmMUGFiI0gBRxXqVzPmRDbvz5UW-aBrVg13FiWo3wnj2yGqP2_WzOFRCT60GYXt-MJh8V2srmxRoK5gQ60,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div> 5/2017 thru present<span> </span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,LsKAo_HeNNvVn8e0cDxtHSeLoR3npW-8RPv-a1uTz8vlkpY2g2ckzynNVrsHBLDwefpJafaKIGFZoge5o85zAT3C5I3LbGDSN7M2EA8NsSwMyPY8YbRj&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <span> </span><a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">.-- .- -.
- / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -.
.--- ..- --. .- - .</span></span></span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">FRIAM
Applied Complexity Group listserv</span></span></span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">Zoom
Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 </span></span></span></span></span><a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">un/subscribe<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_BlHnyrN4CBEuprXVVy7f_mq3Z-tTWnNTUoEVL2wFjffa3W39HZm7739L-ersuH4jGwn4lOKTAQ0a8LW3Rpg5oX0xA-uGCnMO6QYqE4KE3dZO3-wLhX5WWwF7A4,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_BlHnyrN4CBEuprXVVy7f_mq3Z-tTWnNTUoEVL2wFjffa3W39HZm7739L-ersuH4jGwn4lOKTAQ0a8LW3Rpg5oX0xA-uGCnMO6QYqE4KE3dZO3-wLhX5WWwF7A4,&typo=1</a><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,t2v4djJabF5YoxHP9TWOogbl_lizkTlBDrWNSYFDyFQc2oEqq-ghR0tsH7hnRt9tZjI3-MOOrEuLks0GJ9lideLCkCUiGBWRpBsaKIPTaH5r1tdRiQGZ4_qgkg,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,t2v4djJabF5YoxHP9TWOogbl_lizkTlBDrWNSYFDyFQc2oEqq-ghR0tsH7hnRt9tZjI3-MOOrEuLks0GJ9lideLCkCUiGBWRpBsaKIPTaH5r1tdRiQGZ4_qgkg,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">archives:</span></span></span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">5/2017
thru present<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,1HwvCHzBMHc9q8dL9FwTD6thlBDdmw7i9bSUZebmdoy7AlNV8bl5Inpn6PlDWdxaOG1_3wNax5YCtb2P3_Ct_dVSvtqcKX0fU7ehAs56Y-D2MA,,&typo=1" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,1HwvCHzBMHc9q8dL9FwTD6thlBDdmw7i9bSUZebmdoy7AlNV8bl5Inpn6PlDWdxaOG1_3wNax5YCtb2P3_Ct_dVSvtqcKX0fU7ehAs56Y-D2MA,,&typo=1</a><br></div><div><span style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span style="font-size:12px">1/2003
thru 6/2021 </span></span></span></span></span><a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><pre>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe</a> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
<br></pre></blockquote><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .---
..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div>5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div><div><br></div><pre>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe</a> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
<br></pre></blockquote><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div>5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial"><br></div></div><br>
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives:<br>
5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote></div>