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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/8/21 6:31 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfq9EwWoJ0OONYp+h=uytbo3OzMQd0SZ3G8x8EPGmp+MsQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Remind me never to go to a casino. The last time
I was in one was to meet my lawyer whose office was in ABQ for
lunch so we could split the driving time. I almost choked from
the cigarette smoke.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
I was really impressed when my (former) mother-in-law was finally
coerced to go to a Casino with her daughter (my wife).... she
brought a roll of NICKELS (who has rolls of nickels?) and actually
found a nickel machine she could plug and did so with a certain
fatality. Before she hit the bottom of the roll, the machine went
off like fireworks and by the time the lights and buzzers quit,
there was an LED display at the top showing she had won some $250
ish dollars. It took a good 30 minutes for the casino to actually
effect getting physical *tokens* into her hands... she promptly
walked over to the cashier and asked for her cash. Her children
cajoled her to go play it back into the machines, trying to convince
her that "with her luck, she could hit it big" but she primly folded
the cash into her billfold and told them "I'll be waiting in the
car". As I (want to?) remember it, she may have forced the
remaining nickels from her roll into her daughter's hand at that
point. I doubt she ever put another nickel into a casino or any
other game of chance (Or implied skill)... she was always a class
act.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA5dAfq9EwWoJ0OONYp+h=uytbo3OzMQd0SZ3G8x8EPGmp+MsQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
<br>
505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
Prof David West <<a href="mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">profwest@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">SteveS,<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Your intuitions are spot on,
based on my experience. Although casinos can't ban cell
phones, you may not use one at the table - must step away
and not have a hand in play. The do detect and ban all
kinds of electronic transmissions — radio to infrared and
if you have such a transmitter on your person you are
quickly escorted out and banned. Receivers are harder to
detect except when actively 'receiving' but same result if
discovered. <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Blackjack has a published
'standard game' written up years ago — casinos will
actually give you a copy — that maximizes the players odds
of winning, at least long term. However there are lots of
tricks employed to remove even that vestige of a chance,
like mandatory side bets, and paying even odds instead of
3/2 for a blackjack if your bet is below some minimum.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Casinos are also masters of
facial recognition — probably better tech than anything
any government (including China) or Facebook can command.
Once banned, even hookers, you will never get more than a
few feet into a big casino before security descends — even
if disguised.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Cash game poker, the house
takes a standard rake — 10% up to a limit — of the pot as
table rent and dealers receive tips plus a minimum wage
hourly rate. Seniority determines which dealers get to
service the high limit (hence high tips) tables.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Tournaments: house takes a
portion of the entry fee and rest goes into pot. Dealers
get hourly rate, plus tips are collected from winners and
distributed evenly.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">Poker is luck plus very
astute inter-personal observation. One of my favorite
players, Daniel Negreanu, has a Master Class that provides
all kinds of technical skill, but he does not play that
way, instead seat of the pants observations and table talk
determine his strategy. Not that he is unaware of or lacks
the technical chops, they are just not the ultimate
arbitrator of play — mostly because all the others in
tournaments at his level have the same degree of technical
skill.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I did some consulting to
casinos a few years back when Highlands was trying to
start a casino / hospitality program. I have never seen
such sophisticated and secure systems before or since.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">James Swain has a series of
mystery books — first in series is <i>Grift Sense</i> —
with plots that center on one major attempt to defraud a
casino and many little side plots that reveal all the
different attempts to "cheat" casinos. Fun reads.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">A strategy for short term
winning at roulette: bet 10 each on two of the 1/3
sections of the table (rows or columns) plus one of the
1:1 sections (even/odd, red/black, top half-bottom have of
the board), plus 1 dollar on the 0-00 line (half odds but
both covered). However, this will not work if you play
more than a 10-15 minutes because it only takes 4.5 times
when none of your bets hit before you are wiped out. This
apparently works because the wheel DOES have a bias,
mostly from the way the dealer sends the ball around the
wheel. Watch the history board for patterns that reveal
the ever so slight but real bias.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Mon, Nov 8, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Steve Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="m_-2038111780130941466qt">
<p>DaveW-<br>
</p>
<p>Congratulations (or condolences) on your move to
Vegas. Another reference gave me the sense you might be
at least *wintering* there.<br>
</p>
<p>I probably would not be surprised (though shocked) by
what Casinos can ban. I didn't mean to suggest that
they didn't have the self-granted authority to ban cell
phones, etc. but rather doing so would severely impact
their popularity among the hordes of marks who happily
come to give up their spare (or not so) cash to feed the
bright lights and other egregious displays of wealth. <br>
</p>
<p>The Thomas Bass rendition of Farmer et alia foray into
exploiting manufacturing/wear biases in roulette wheels
<a
href="https://www.thomasbass.com/the_eudaemonic_pie_1360.htm"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Eudamonic Pie</a> suggests that
today the same effort would be "trivial" with nothing
more perhaps than a cell phone camera/computer observing
from a shirt pocket. Of course, those biases have
long since been ameliorated one way or another I am
sure. <br>
</p>
<p>You describe poker tables as the one place the house
has no stake in the game. I have to admit that i don't
know who pays the rent/real-estate on the table? Is
there a flat-rate rake-off from every pot? Does the
dealer live on tips?<br>
</p>
<p>When the Native Casinos opened here, my elderDotter was
turning 18 and she had a friend who thought she wanted
to grow up to be a blackjack dealer so they frequented
the casino. I don't know that my daughter lost/spent
much money on it, but she never had any illusions that
she could "beat the house". I think their game was
blackjack which I understand has the built-in tiny but
positive bias to the house (the house wins all ties by
convention?). I told both daughters as they approached
college that I had saved enough for them to be able to
go through a BS/BA degree with only part-time/summer
work contribution (or healthy scholarship) on their
part. I suggested that I cash it out and take it to
the casino and drop it all on red or black (Roulette)
with the understanding that their odds ware just a
smidge short of doubling their money vs losing it all
(the one green slot represents the house advantage?).
The conceit was that if they *won* they would then have
enough cash to "coast" through college as *many* of
their peers seemed to be supported or else if they
*lost* they could forego any implied obligation of going
to college. They both honestly mulled it for at least
10 seconds before they rolled their eyes and said "no
way!". <br>
</p>
<p>I'm curious how you feel about my claim that the
inter-personal dynamic at the poker table is in some
sense more important than the technical skill? My point
in your case would be that you would be *at* a table
where the technical skill level was roughly even,
right? Tournament play tends to support that, right?
As you advance, the skill level of your table-peers
increases until you either step up YOUR game or fail out
of the game? <br>
</p>
<p>I think of you as having a strong mix of technical
approach, intuition, and likely to engage in the
social-emotional game as well (e.g. bluffing).<br>
</p>
<p>- Steve<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/8/21 9:42 AM, Prof David West wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Arial">You would be surprised at
what casinos can ban. Maybe even more surprised at
the, not necessarily AI, software tools they use to
analyze video feeds and pounce on any kind of
statistically improbabilities. Most casinos in Vegas
have tools, like mandatory side bets with very low
odds, that erase the near equal odds of blackjack.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">The only 'safe' gambling
is poker where the house has no direct interest in the
outcome.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">As DES stated, winning is
a matter of patience and losing antes only, until you
get good hand and then skill of playing that hand for
maximum return — playing less worse than the others at
the table.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">I am living in Vegas now
and playing small tournaments fairly regularly.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial">davew<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div>On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Steve Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="m_-2038111780130941466qt-qt">
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 11/7/21 12:02 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">There must be some kind of
“Back to the future” movie that can be made out of
this. Doyne Farmer in Vegas all over again, but
with current-era AI in place of toe-operated
computers. <br>
</blockquote>
<p>Yah! Surely Casinos can't begin to restrict
computers(phones)/earbuds, etc. on the gaming
floor.<br>
</p>
<p>Strange coincidence that my sister went to
Kindergarten with Vance Packard (Norm's brother) in
Silver City long before they all became eagle scouts
and then the Chaos Cabal. We moved away the next
year and I doubt I ever met any of them back then.
I came to LANL just before (I think) Doyne came... I
seem to remember that Norm was there for a
summer... and soon came the (in)famous CA
conference... As I remember it the game of
interest (aside from Life, what with Conway in
attendance) was GO with a lot of speculation about
the implications of local vs global
"intelligence"... I was intrigued by HashLife and
it's implications for finding structure at many
scales... I still hope for someone with more
follow-through than I have to implement a more
redundant but "thorough" space-time decomposition
(an N-1xN-1 kernel over the 4 positions at each
"zoom" level).<br>
</p>
<p>Regarding poker.. I played some low-stakes in
college and saw there were two things to take in:
the main technical skill was to simply play less
poorly than the other players at the table and that
was entirely overshadowed by the social-engineering
games of bluffing, etc. The very simple
game-theoretic aspect of not depleting your own
stake before you catch a "lucky streak" going your
way was also a good understanding. I played with
my "boss" and a number of peers at the time and
realized that it was more about jockeying for
position at work and drinking beer than it was about
winning/losing. I think the most I ever lost/won
was on the order of $20-$40 which in those days was
roughly 1-2 shifts wages... a LOT if I joined them
weekly... too rich for my blood! I still feel that
*technically* playing well really means just playing
less badly. Blackjack being even more obviously
so?<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yikes.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Nov 7, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Marcus
Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor">
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">My
inclination would be to invest in
standoff biometrics (e.g. Eulerian Video
Amplification) and then find the best
poker playing code. It ought to be
possible to automate and perhaps get
rich in the process.<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div
style="border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in">
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div><b>From:</b><span> </span>Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>><span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Eric
Charles<br>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Sunday,
November 7, 2021 7:42 AM<br>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b><span> </span>The
Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[FRIAM] lurking<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I
DID read all the thread so far...
but I'm curious how we got to one of
the starting points: "as cringy as
it may be for some dork to be proud
of their Poker prowess" <br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I
am somewhat satisfied
with my Poker
mediocrity, certainly
not proud of it... but
if I met someone who was
ACTUALLY
startlingly better than
I am, and they were
proud of that, I
wouldn't find it cringy.
(Ditto in my other
hobbies, like Aikido.)<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I
guess if I met someone
who had a slight edge in
their drunk-buddy home
games, and they were
super proud of THAT,
then i would find it
cringy. (Ditto someone
who's the best Aikido
student in their small
dojo, but who's
obviously not more than
that.) <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When
I see academic work on
game theory, it's
usually of lower quality
than what the good poker
players are doing these
days. Mastering the game
is crazy hard, and being
able to sit down and
implement a coherent and
winning strategy for
40-80 hours a week is
not easy. So... why
would that be cringe? <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On
Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 1:42 PM Marcus
Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top-style:none;border-right-style:none;border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div
style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Ok, part of the story is
knowing what is really needed
for reproducibility as a
function of context.<br>
</div>
<div>With that, then there's the
matter of how much control is
afforded. Is it programmable
in predictable ways?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-----Original Message-----<br>
</div>
<div>From: Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$<br>
</div>
<div>Sent: Wednesday, November 3,
2021 8:20 AM<br>
</div>
<div>To:<span> </span><a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yeah, I agree. But context is
Queen. When the virus is created
in the lab, it's done with real
stuff distilled from the soupy
world. Given enough of a
difference in context, the robot
may not be able to re-constitute
the life because the soupy world
surrounding the robot doesn't
have the real stuff required.
Such drastic context changes
could be a result of translation
through space or time. E.g.
trying to construct, on Mars, an
organism read/serialized on
earth. Or e.g. trying to
construct an organism read
millennia ago, millennia in the
future. It's naive to talk about
"science" as if any given
read-out formula thereby
expressed is *complete*. Science
is abstraction to a large extent
... maybe not as abstracting as
math, of course. And science
must remain "open" precisely
because any formula it expresses
is suspect, perhaps incomplete.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My favorite example is the
magic brewing stick:<span> </span><a
href="https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/</a><span> </span>It
*was* scientific to lay out the
magic stick as a critical
element of the brewing process,
only to discover later that the
stick isn't the important part.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 11/2/21 2:39 PM, Marcus
Daniels wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>> Even if that were so,
viruses have been pulled from
history or tweaked and created
in the lab. So we have a
design specification, and the
means to make it. One could
imagine a robot fabricating the
close-to-the-metal machine too.
There is a story one can write
down how it is done. If there
is no story, it is not science
we are talking about, it is
something else. <span> </span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--<span> </span><br>
</div>
<div>"Better to be slapped with
the truth than kissed with a
lie."<br>
</div>
<div><span>☤</span>>$ uǝlƃ<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - ..
--- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .---
..- --. .- - .<br>
</div>
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Group listserv<br>
</div>
<div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn
UTC-6 <span> </span><a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
</div>
<div>un/subscribe<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,zW4gfnCEw-aapRghh7ny5t03MK3Rq3qBzZPN7MbtdXMnfOx5f1a4BOQ_kZjD5TYhhqAHjIi_GHC0cpNID7QmaQdIJEXPdJvp7e2YSj9T-Q,,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,42WSfvOtpfV6Y4enUg6wuYty46Wym2X7PyXyWfqyenKLBcLVwb23M3brrQe1Ygpnu_evLvZtxEK7bFkcshitkPmAQPpH4xkXwt8LCX6FnP03&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>archives:<br>
</div>
<div> 5/2017 thru present<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,iXEKOh_9svoFHHsCWA0TbwlILOY3IsE9XdwRauUf8WPQ2GKKbDvhQxuC-IF8qq3KWrXqLIrNxnxVLUtsqex7IJejGUSNsMIb8RUoRuriAA,,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <span> </span><a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - ..
--- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .---
..- --. .- - .<br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM Applied Complexity
Group listserv<br>
</div>
<div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn
UTC-6 <span> </span><a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
</div>
<div>un/subscribe<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,xOjquKj_8PwgYgPetFZ4iffchk0Hsdj7KqKj_7lgxEu0hJ4JKtFeVvWGlSzPBqsqqlGfsC7QC4-6YEI60Sn8KQ-dv4hRIYgns3yIkdh09Q,,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,OtAeUIEXCxUwWlqYdvcpIascVLmMUGFiI0gBRxXqVzPmRDbvz5UW-aBrVg13FiWo3wnj2yGqP2_WzOFRCT60GYXt-MJh8V2srmxRoK5gQ60,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>archives:<br>
</div>
<div> 5/2017 thru present<span> </span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,LsKAo_HeNNvVn8e0cDxtHSeLoR3npW-8RPv-a1uTz8vlkpY2g2ckzynNVrsHBLDwefpJafaKIGFZoge5o85zAT3C5I3LbGDSN7M2EA8NsSwMyPY8YbRj&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <span> </span><a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">.-- .- -.
- / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. /
-.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .</span></span></span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">FRIAM
Applied Complexity Group
listserv</span></span></span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">Zoom
Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 </span></span></span></span></span><a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">un/subscribe<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_BlHnyrN4CBEuprXVVy7f_mq3Z-tTWnNTUoEVL2wFjffa3W39HZm7739L-ersuH4jGwn4lOKTAQ0a8LW3Rpg5oX0xA-uGCnMO6QYqE4KE3dZO3-wLhX5WWwF7A4,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_BlHnyrN4CBEuprXVVy7f_mq3Z-tTWnNTUoEVL2wFjffa3W39HZm7739L-ersuH4jGwn4lOKTAQ0a8LW3Rpg5oX0xA-uGCnMO6QYqE4KE3dZO3-wLhX5WWwF7A4,&typo=1</a><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">FRIAM-COMIC<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,t2v4djJabF5YoxHP9TWOogbl_lizkTlBDrWNSYFDyFQc2oEqq-ghR0tsH7hnRt9tZjI3-MOOrEuLks0GJ9lideLCkCUiGBWRpBsaKIPTaH5r1tdRiQGZ4_qgkg,,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,t2v4djJabF5YoxHP9TWOogbl_lizkTlBDrWNSYFDyFQc2oEqq-ghR0tsH7hnRt9tZjI3-MOOrEuLks0GJ9lideLCkCUiGBWRpBsaKIPTaH5r1tdRiQGZ4_qgkg,,&typo=1</a><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">archives:</span></span></span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">5/2017
thru present<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span><a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,1HwvCHzBMHc9q8dL9FwTD6thlBDdmw7i9bSUZebmdoy7AlNV8bl5Inpn6PlDWdxaOG1_3wNax5YCtb2P3_Ct_dVSvtqcKX0fU7ehAs56Y-D2MA,,&typo=1"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,1HwvCHzBMHc9q8dL9FwTD6thlBDdmw7i9bSUZebmdoy7AlNV8bl5Inpn6PlDWdxaOG1_3wNax5YCtb2P3_Ct_dVSvtqcKX0fU7ehAs56Y-D2MA,,&typo=1</a><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;float:none;display:inline!important"><span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica"><span><span
style="font-size:12px">1/2003
thru 6/2021 </span></span></span></span></span><a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
style="color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<pre>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe</a> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-.
--- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
</div>
<div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
</div>
<div>un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>archives:<br>
</div>
<div>5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<pre>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe</a> <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. ---
-. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
</div>
<div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
</div>
<div>un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>archives:<br>
</div>
<div>5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .---
..- --. .- - .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives:<br>
5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
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