<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">#qt p.qt-MsoNormal{margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}
#qt a:link{color:blue;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-decoration-thickness:auto;}
#qt pre{margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">Nick, get out your dagger repellent you Trumpist you!<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">I have heard, almost verbatim, your entire paragraph from the mouth of the Donald, and seen the exact same notions discussed, ad nauseam, in Glen's favorite newspaper, <i>The Epoch Times.</i> [Don't shoot me glen, it is a joke.]<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Thu, Nov 11, 2021, at 11:57 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="overflow-wrap:break-word;"><div class="qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Steve,<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Well, I may be the victim of recent “neo- (aka archeo-) liberal” pod casts, but I really get the impression that the Chinese are going for it, boasting a Chinese Exceptionalism every bit as toxic as the one we have espoused. From their point of view, this moment in history is the analogue of our moment after WW two. They are ready to move ahead and there is nobody “out there” with the organization or resources to oppose them. Why would they not take the opportunity? The age of sino-hegemony is upon us. We either pull our socks up politically or settle down to be the new Yugoslavia. <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 11, 2021 11:58 AM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com<br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Application of robo-pigeon in ethological studies of bird flocks<br></div><p></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p>Nick -<br></p><p>I asked this because the style of your statement felt like it had the flavor of Cold War Rhetoric which I was (also) raised on. I (want to) think something more sophisticated (and interesting) is afoot today and that while I don't want to fall into the low-entropy stylization implied by this CCP Spectre, I *do* want to believe (or seek) something good that the CCP "great experiment" might have found while we were on our NeoLiberal hyperCapitalism "great experiment". Is there room to learn something (humanist/humanitarian) from them? I believe StephenG's familiarity with China in modern times (as well as others) may offer us some parallax?<br></p><p>- Steve<br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On 11/11/21 10:42 AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Steve,<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">No. You are right on target for the thread. My understanding of the present Government is that it is absolutely convinced that the centralist, technological, authoritarian model of government superior to other models and that this is their time to demonstrate that superiority. I can really imagine some CCP leaders reading this research and thinking, “mmmmmmmmm! THAT’S interesting. In my back yard, back in the sixties, there was a teensy little CIA research station figuring out how to get animals –dogs, ravens, pigeons, donkeys, what-have-you, to carry bombs for them, using a combination of training and neural implants. When the gave up the project, they left behind two gigantic glass carboys filled with pickled dogs heads. <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style=""><span class="font" style="font-family:Algerian;">The Shadow Knows</span></span>.<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><a href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"><span style="color:rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><b>From:</b> Friam <a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<br></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 11, 2021 11:22 AM<br></div><div><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br></div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Application of robo-pigeon in ethological studies of bird flocks<br></div><p></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div>Nick -<br></div><div><br></div><p></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><p>Chinese science moves ahead in the development of the ideal society.<br></p></blockquote><p>I don't mean to be flip in my question, but have to ask if you are being flip in this statement? Can you say more about what you think the Chinese gov't/people/culture might be "trying" to do, either overtly, or implicitly by simply following their individual goals/interests/desires? <br></p><p>I believe that the collective dynamics between Nations/Peoples are what is dominating the movement/evolution of humanity (cultural, not genetic) and that it is like an N-body problem in complexity and subtlety but is effected primarily through network relations. <br></p><p>Like Gene Expression Networks, I believe that the more important "memes" (I think this is a useful but risky metaphorical binding that Dawkins coined for us most of a career (for me) ago) are those that are _regulatory_ which is why the likes of Trump and Bannon and Stone and the whole cabal of supervillians we are coping with these days focus on things like "fake news!" and "big lie!", etc. In the spirit of McLuhan, "the medium IS the message", the medium itself becomes the _thing to manipulate_ like trying to disrupt the news credibility and the election process as well as becoming the definition of a tweetHole, and using Facebook to disseminate dysInfo etc.<br></p><p>I know this is an acute threadbend, you were trying to talk about birds and flocking and experimental techniques for studying same... if you do feel inclined to answer, it is probably best to rethread.<br></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><p><a href="https://jin.imrpress.com/article/2020/1757-448X/1757-448X-19-3-443.shtml">https://jin.imrpress.com/article/2020/1757-448X/1757-448X-19-3-443.shtml</a><br></p><p>If the robo-pigeon is a dominant member of the flock, you can make the flock do loop-di-loops by commanding the robo-pigeon to loop. If subordinate, the loop-di-looping behavior of the robopigeon has no effect on the flock. A robo-pigeon is one with a brain implant and pigeons are operated on AFTER their dominance in the flock has been determined.<br></p><p> <br></p><p>I hope I have this all right. <br></p><p>Nick<br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><div><br></div><p></p><pre> <br></pre><pre>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></pre><pre>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></pre><pre>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<br></pre><pre>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></pre><pre>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></pre><pre>archives:<br></pre><pre> 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></pre><pre> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></pre></blockquote><p class="qt-MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><p></p><pre> <br></pre><pre>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></pre><pre>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></pre><pre>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam<br></pre><pre>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></pre><pre>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></pre><pre>archives:<br></pre><pre> 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></pre><pre> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></pre></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>un/subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives:<br></div><div>5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div>1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>