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    <p>As an erstwhile tennis player, I have to say "spin matters"...  
      when the ball comes over the net and I set my feet and body to
      return it, swing my racket with optimal trajectory to intercept
      it, all that would seem to matter is "Is my perception of the
      trajectory of the ball true, and will my racket intercept it in
      the 'sweet spot' such that I can return it well?"    Up to the
      *spin* on the ball, all that "truth of trajectory" is accurate.  
      Frank may note that the spin on the ball *on the bounce* is more
      important than the spin when it hits my racket, which just changes
      the calculus of the "truth of the trajectory" to "pre bounce", but
      still holds.</p>
    <p>When Nick offers these "factoids" about China's behaviour,
      posture, claims, which Epoch Times or DJT might have relayed as
      well, I would claim that they have a "spin" on them which is
      either detectible in the flight of the ball (aerodynamics) or it's
      bounce, but ultimately on how it responds to my racket when I try
      to return (or perhaps just deflect or capture it?).  Observing
      DJT/Epoch/NST's racket action as the ball leaves gives me some
      good hints about spin, as well as aerodynamic flight, bounce,
      etc.  Also knowing NST/AlanWakim/GEPR/DJT's history with various
      shots they may make gives me some hints as to whether the
      arm/wrist/racket flourish was actually the spin I percieved or
      some other spin I might be spoofed into expecting.</p>
    <p>So I guess the point is more "Partial Truth".    Nick's list of
      factoids might be arguable, and the context in which they are
      offered might also be arguable, but more important to me is "what
      is the thesis, and what is the intent?".  DJT and Wakim are likely
      to be trying to generate a certain kind of fear/judgement that
      they then can use to further one or more facets of an agenda we
      don't trust and perhaps implicitly fear.   NST is more likely (my
      judgement/guess) to be honest in any fear-mongering/awfulizing I
      might attribute to him... he truly is worried that the Red Scare
      monster stories of his youth are in fact real and coming true
      (perhaps DJT and Wakim have some real fear going on as well).  
      GEPR (in my experience) is more likely "just" stirring the pot,
      trying to get a more interesting conversation going, and if he has
      an agenda to try to convince us of something with those volleys
      across the net, that agenda is somewhat contingent and episodic?
      and likely to defer to a larger agenda which might well have a
      strong component of curiosity and playfulness in pursuit of that
      curiosity, even if the balls sting when they smack you (maybe
      racketball is more the correct target domain?).</p>
    <p>So... back to Nick...  Are you steelmanning or strawmanning
      China/Xi/CCP/etc or is there a tin/copper/bronze/steelman you
      could offer that isn't Red Scare all the way down?   <br>
    </p>
    <blockquote>
      <p>"Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to
        get you" <br>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <p>I'm not trying to claim that there is nothing to be askeered of
      from China, but rather more that what we are likely to flinch away
      from on the face of their statements and actions may well not be
      the most useful thing to prioritize, and may be a ploy to make us
      flinch while they put something entirely different past us.</p>
    <p>Also in the spirit of Jijitsu or Aikido, it makes a bit more
      sense to understand what one's opponent is *actually*
      intending/doing/capable of and responding to that more as a
      "dance" than a confrontation.   I'm interested in how we (western
      civ?) can "dance" with the East (far and near) rather than how we
      can dominate or beat them down.   The world is too small (IMO) to
      make it into a cage-fight rink (or ThunderDome) if we have the
      opportunity to turn it more into a dance hall or better yet an
      extended EcoSystem in which humans are (for better or worse)
      dominant elements.</p>
    <p>gRumble,</p>
    <p> - Steve<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/12/21 10:09 AM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:057301d7d7e8$1ebd35a0$5c37a0e0$@gmail.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal">Well trolled!  It’s time for me to turn of
          the news for a while.  I am even closer to hysteria than
          usual.  <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I want to say it shouldn’t  MATTER who said
          it;  it should only matter whether it’s true or not.  It’s the
          “true,<a
href="https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/this-website-works-better-in-microsoft-edge-160fa918-d581-4932-9e4e-1075c4713595?ui=en-us&rs=en-us&ad=us"
            moz-do-not-send="true"> shmoo</a>!” move that drives me
          crazy.  I concede that complexity thinking should turn us all
          into hopeless dyonesians, but I will not have it!<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">N<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><a
              href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof
              David West<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 12, 2021 9:46 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Application of robo-pigeon in
              ethological studies of bird flocks<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Nothing
              you say below or said in the original post is false. All
              are true. Trump could not have written what you wrote, he
              lacks the literacy as well as the ability to avoid
              "hyperisms" in his speech.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">However
              ... each of your points about the Chinese in both posts
              have been stated by Trump; albeit in his distorted/garbled
              playground bully vernacular.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The Epoch
              Times is a Falun Gong mouthpiece with a huge anti-China
              bias. Nevertheless it has/does publish essays and news
              pieces that also state, just as eloquently as do you, the
              same points and warnings about what China is doing and
              why.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">What I am
              teasing you (trolling with a huge smile on my face because
              I think the world of you) about — via the ad hominen — is
              the fact that "truth" (non-falsity) of the statements made
              are somehow made dependent on the identity of the
              messenger. When Trump or the Epoch Times makes the
              statements they are racist cant, but when Nick states
              them, they are wisdom to paid attention to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Nov 11, 2021, at 10:11 PM, <a
              href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote
          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;overflow-wrap:break-word"
          id="qt">
          <div>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1">Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1">So, ad hominem aside, which of the
              assertions  I made are false.   Is Hong Kong not being
              digested as we speak?  Is pressure not increasing on the
              Taiwanese?  Are islands not being built and fortified in
              the international waters around China?  Are the Uighurs
              not being confined in work camps?   Are the Chinese not
              massively deploying surveillance technology?  Look, I
              don’t hold it against the Chinese.  Given our behavior in
              the last decade, I think a very good case can be made for
              the superiority of authoritarian rule in the avoidance of
              economic and social chaos.  If democracies are capable of
              producing Hitlers and Trumps and the current Turkish and
              Hungarian leaders, which exactly IS their special call on
              our loyalty.  Could that loyalty just be so much romantic
              twaddle.  The democratical citizens of Athens murdered an
              entire defenseless city of their fellow Greeks—put them to
              the sword, I believe is how Thucydides put it.   I don’t
              happen to agree with the argument, but I don’t have to
              think of the Chinese as some hideous yellow peril to
              believe that they sincerely believe it.  I just have to
              think that they are expanding, as we did after the cold
              war, into a vacuum left by our own sudden ambivalence
              concerning our own values.  I don’t believe that Trump
              could have written the above, but even if he could, a
              stopped clock has to be right two times a day (or only
              once, if it is a twenty four our clock.) <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1">I would love to believe that I am
              wrong about any of this.  Democracies are caving all over
              the world and I think it’s fair to say that a majority of
              americans have given up on the idea as well. <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1">The one thing I am desperately
              naïve about and that complexity denies is that it is
              valuable to think ahead, to plan, to share plans with
              fellow citizens, and to follow some fair rules for
              arriving at a consensus, being ever vigilant for the
              perils of mob psychology and group think, before taking
              action.  All of that is in peril, right now, and when the
              history is written it will have been us that let it
              happen. <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1">N<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><a
                  href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><a
                  href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
                  moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1">
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
                      href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Prof David West<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November
                    11, 2021 9:39 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>To:</b> <a
                      href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
                    Application of robo-pigeon in ethological studies of
                    bird flocks<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Nick,
                    get out your dagger repellent you Trumpist you!</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
                    have heard, almost verbatim, your entire paragraph
                    from the mouth of the Donald, and seen the exact
                    same notions discussed, ad nauseam,  in Glen's
                    favorite newspaper, <i>The Epoch Times.</i> [Don't
                    shoot me glen, it is a joke.]</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">davew</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1">On Thu, Nov 11, 2021, at 11:57
                AM, <a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote
              style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;overflow-wrap:break-word"
              id="qt-qt">
              <div>
                <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">Steve,<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">Well, I may be the victim
                  of recent “neo- (aka archeo-) liberal” pod casts, but
                  I really get the impression that the Chinese are going
                  for it, boasting a Chinese Exceptionalism every bit as
                  toxic as the one we have espoused.  From their point
                  of view, this moment in history is the analogue of our
                  moment after WW two.  They are ready to move ahead and
                  there is nobody “out there” with the organization or
                  resources to oppose them.  Why would they not take the
                  opportunity?  The age of sino-hegemony is upon us.  We
                  either pull our socks up politically or settle down to
                  be the new Yugoslavia. <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"><a
                      href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"><a
                      href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1">
                    <div>
                      <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
                          href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday,
                        November 11, 2021 11:58 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>To:</b> <a
                          href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                        [FRIAM] Application of robo-pigeon in
                        ethological studies of bird flocks<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>Nick -<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>I asked this because the style of your statement felt
                  like it had the flavor of Cold War Rhetoric which I
                  was (also) raised on.   I (want to) think something
                  more sophisticated (and interesting) is afoot today
                  and that while I don't want to fall into the
                  low-entropy stylization implied by this CCP Spectre, I
                  *do* want to believe (or seek) something good that the
                  CCP "great experiment" might have found while we were
                  on our NeoLiberal hyperCapitalism "great
                  experiment".   Is there room to learn something
                  (humanist/humanitarian) from them?   I believe
                  StephenG's familiarity with China in modern times (as
                  well as others) may offer us some parallax?<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>- Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">On 11/11/21 10:42 AM, <a
                      href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a>
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">Steve,<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">No.  You are right on
                    target for the thread.  My understanding of the
                    present Government is that it is absolutely
                    convinced that the centralist, technological,
                    authoritarian model of government superior to other
                    models and that this is their time to demonstrate
                    that superiority.   I can really imagine some CCP
                    leaders reading this research and thinking,
                    “mmmmmmmmm!  THAT’S interesting.  In my back yard,
                    back in the sixties, there was a teensy little CIA
                    research station figuring out how to get animals
                    –dogs, ravens, pigeons, donkeys, what-have-you, to
                    carry bombs for them, using a combination of
                    training and neural implants.  When the gave up the
                    project, they left behind two gigantic glass carboys
                    filled with pickled dogs heads. <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"><span class="font"><span
                        style="font-family:Algerian">The Shadow Knows</span></span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11">Nick Thompson<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"><a
                        href="mailto:ThompNickSon2@gmail.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                          style="color:#0563C1">ThompNickSon2@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"><a
                        href="https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                          style="color:#0563C1">https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                      1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1">
                      <div>
                        <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>From:</b> Friam <a
                            href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a>
                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Smith<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday,
                          November 11, 2021 11:22 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>To:</b> <a
                            href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="qt-msonormal1"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                          [FRIAM] Application of robo-pigeon in
                          ethological studies of bird flocks<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="qt-qt-msonormal11"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1">Nick -<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote
                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                    <p>Chinese science moves ahead in the development of
                      the ideal society.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p>I don't mean to be flip in my question, but have to
                    ask if you are being flip in this statement?  Can
                    you say more about what you think the Chinese
                    gov't/people/culture might be "trying" to do, either
                    overtly, or implicitly by simply following their
                    individual goals/interests/desires?   <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>I believe that the collective dynamics between
                    Nations/Peoples are what is dominating the
                    movement/evolution of humanity (cultural, not
                    genetic) and that it is like an N-body problem in
                    complexity and subtlety but is effected primarily
                    through network relations.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>Like Gene Expression Networks, I believe that the
                    more important "memes" (I think this is a useful but
                    risky metaphorical binding that Dawkins coined for
                    us most of a career (for me) ago) are those that are
                    _regulatory_ which is why the likes of Trump and
                    Bannon and Stone and the whole cabal of
                    supervillians we are coping with these days focus on
                    things like "fake news!" and "big lie!", etc.   In
                    the spirit of McLuhan, "the medium IS the message",
                    the medium itself becomes the _thing to manipulate_
                    like trying to disrupt the news credibility and the
                    election process as well as becoming the definition
                    of a tweetHole, and using Facebook to disseminate
                    dysInfo etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p>I know this is an acute threadbend, you were trying
                    to talk about birds and flocking and experimental
                    techniques for studying same...  if you do feel
                    inclined to answer, it is probably best to rethread.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <blockquote
                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                    <p><a
href="https://jin.imrpress.com/article/2020/1757-448X/1757-448X-19-3-443.shtml"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://jin.imrpress.com/article/2020/1757-448X/1757-448X-19-3-443.shtml</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p>If the robo-pigeon is a dominant member of the
                      flock, you can make the flock do loop-di-loops by
                      commanding the robo-pigeon to loop.  If
                      subordinate, the loop-di-looping behavior of the
                      robopigeon has no effect on the flock.  A
                      robo-pigeon is one with a brain implant and
                      pigeons are operated on AFTER their dominance in
                      the flock has been determined.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p>I hope I have this all right.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p>Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -.
                          ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
                          listserv</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 
                          bit.ly/virtualfriam</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">un/subscribe <a
                            href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">FRIAM-COMIC <a
                            href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">archives:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">5/2017 thru present <a
                            href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                          New"">1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a
                            href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div>
                    <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -.
                        ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
                        listserv</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 
                        bit.ly/virtualfriam</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">un/subscribe <a
                          href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">FRIAM-COMIC <a
                          href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">archives:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">5/2017 thru present <a
                          href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="size"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                        New"">1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a
                          href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. ---
                  -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group
                  listserv<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn
                  UTC-6  <a href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">un/subscribe <a
                    href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">FRIAM-COMIC <a
                    href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">archives:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">5/2017 thru present <a
                    href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1">1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a
                    href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="qt-msonormal1"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div>
              <p class="qt-msonormal1"><span class="font"><span
                    style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -.
              ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  <a
                href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">un/subscribe <a
                href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">FRIAM-COMIC <a
                href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">archives:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">5/2017 thru present <a
                href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a
                href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
 5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
 1/2003 thru 6/2021  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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