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<p>Patrick -</p>
<p>Always (more than) 2 sides to a topic... thanks for speaking to
this. I think some of the analogies to our feelings about
Soviet-Cuban relations is still relevant. That doesn't mean that
Putin/Russia isn't up to something ultimately really bad for "the
West"... <br>
</p>
<p>I had Ukranian Colleagues who I've not been in touch with for
about 5 years. We have mutual colleagues with whom they are still
active so I get reports.<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://domes.frontpictures.com/">https://domes.frontpictures.com/</a><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p> I feel like I should check in, but they have always been very
careful about discussing politics, especially "over the wire".
They do a lot of business with Russia and one is ethnically
Russian despite having been born and raised in the Ukraine. They
launched their business under funding from a Russian Oligarch but
had a (mild?) falling out that led to a change of business as well
as technical direction.<br>
</p>
<p>They were both young children during Chernobyl and teens during
the end of the Soviet Union and the transition to Ukraine becoming
an Independent nation. They were both raised in professional
class households with the commensurate advanced education and
relative privilege. They are technological and business
powerhouses but definitely swim in an unfamiliar sea of Russian
Oligarchical wealth and influence, corruption resistance,
EuroRussianAsian business development, etc.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/22 3:39 PM, Patrick Reilly
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO5ZNe5REvKEgyoWVAvhVCjZYAXUL_GydzzagB5OSiNW51D94A@mail.gmail.com">
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I first note that the US engineered a coup in the Ukraine to eject
a pro-Russian President.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I add that NOT having any former Warsaw Bloc or former Soviet
Republic incorporated as a NATO state was explicitly promised
prior to the USSR peacefully disintegrating.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And how many nations has the US invaded since Gorbachev’s
premiership?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>—— Par<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Tuesday, January 25, 2022, Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think
the issue is, like Sweden and Finland, they have the role
to Russia as buffers to U.S. medium range missiles.<br>
<br>
> On Jan 25, 2022, at 5:37 AM, glen <<a
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gepropella@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Why Ukraine is still not a NATO member: who is to
blame and what to do?<br>
> <a href="https://uacrisis.org/en/why-"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://uacrisis.org/en/why-</a><wbr>ukraine-is-still-not-in-nato<br>
> <br>
> Does anyone here have any better understanding of why
Ukraine membership is so "toxic"? Is this simply a
disagreement between hawks and doves wrt Putin's dream of
a new USSR? I seem to remember back when Crimea was first
occupied by Russia that nearly half the people really did
identify more as Russians than Ukrainians. Ignoring that
polls are fraught, is there a sense that a significant
bloc Ukrainians, themselves, might disapprove of joining
NATO?<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> glen<br>
> Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.<br>
> <br>
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