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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">EricS wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B3C298F9-310C-4E13-9319-CC70408CAEAA@santafe.edu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I don’t remember hearing about infanticides, Frank, though there
is much I miss that does happen.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>me poking in with another anecdotal data point... worth no more
what you are paying for it...</p>
<p>During my last 10 years at LANL I worked with a lot of UNM grad
students, many of them foreign. Three were Chinese nationals.
One was a girl (woman). The two boys were only children. The
girl had a younger brother. The boys came from urban areas, the
girl from a more remote region. She said it was not uncommon
among her peers that they had younger brothers, a few older
brothers, none with sisters. Her husband (also a student from
the same region) also had an older sister. She said it was only
because she had a younger brother who did not want to seek
opportunities away from the family that she was allowed/encouraged
to come to the US. I worked with her for years before any of
this came out.<br>
</p>
<p>She and one of the male students were perhaps the most humble and
diligent of any of the students I worked with. The other "boy"
was a spoiled brat who picked on both of them (even more than
other students) incessantly. He came from significant
wealth/privilege, the other two did not. According to US
security-lore, they were probably all deep Chinese-State agents in
some sense. I discovered that when I re-upped a clearance (not
Q) and got grilled over why I hadn't disclosed the
"relationship". They seemed entirely unconcerned with any of the
other nationalities (Indian, Pakastani - both Nuclear Powers,
Jordanian, Saudi, Japanese, and a variety of Western Bloc Euros).
This was post-9/11 when I would have thought the middle-east was
scarier to them than China.<br>
</p>
<p>I don't think I revealed anything useful (much less secrets) to
any of them. Most were a joy to work with most of the time.
Really all, excepting the one. Ed probably knew (of) all of them,
though many were EECE not CS.</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B3C298F9-310C-4E13-9319-CC70408CAEAA@santafe.edu">
<div class="">When Marc Feldman used to report on these things to
us — he having been in the advising team to the Chinese
government for their 1-child policy — he said the main
instrument of gender imbalance was the ultrasound. To the
extent that daughters got drafted into service of other’s
parents, while sons were drafted into service of their own
parents, there was some level of non-medically-driven abortion
of girls. It is easy to imagine, of course, that there are
rural areas that have access to government enforcement but not
to ultrasound, though much more 30 years ago than now.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Feldman said two things, one of which is an
empirical claim and the other interpretive. The empirical is
probably trustworthy. He said there was some province (or
probably smaller region) where it wasn’t customary that married
women always get carried off to the husband’s family, and that
there, they did not see the sex ratio departing from whatever is
its natural level, which I think is barely boy-biased to a
degree that traditionally could have compensated for the excess
death rates of boys in early life. The interpretive thing he
said was that, when questioned about what drove families to
selectively abort until they had boy children, the number-1
answer they gave was not old-age material want, but a wish “to
carry on the family name”. Feldman seemed to think this was
important, as an instance of the ineffable trumping the effable.
I hold the claim in some reserve, because the justification
people give for doing something may or may not be what a
neo-Skinnerian would call the actual cause.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The other thing that I’m not sure I follow in the
Seibert and Rees narrative is how a 1-child policy gets us to a
90% reduction in a few decades. log2(0.1) ~ -3.32, so 1-child
gets us to 10% in about 70 years if a generation is 20 years.
But that’s just details.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Eric</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2022, at 9:11 PM, Frank Wimberly
<<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Excellent, Marcus.
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Eric, if it's less than 90% it
still would have be significant. Two problems, "God"
has tricks for making babies. As for 1 child per
couple didn't they "terminate" some babies (not
fetuses, feti?), particularly females? My impression
is that their population has grown substantially
notwithstanding those policies.</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Frank<br class="">
<br class="">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto"
class="">---<br class="">
Frank C. Wimberly<br class="">
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br class="">
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br class="">
<br class="">
505 670-9918<br class="">
Santa Fe, NM</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 24, 2022,
6:38 PM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
Before I launch into a diatribe about why the hell
we can't agree to basic, never mind interesting
things: I'd just like to report that the James
Webb telescope is in L2 orbit. Score one for the
negotiating, patient, subtlety-appreciating
scientists and their counterparts in government.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
Marcus</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" class="">
<div id="m_-1119016457442818218divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr" class=""><font style="font-size:11pt"
class="" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b class="">From:</b>
Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of David Eric Smith <<a
href="mailto:desmith@santafe.edu"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">desmith@santafe.edu</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, January 24, 2022
6:01 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] health care
logistics</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"
class="">You know, as I read your
characterization, Marcus, it took me back to
Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and
the role of the Rothschilds and other big Jewish
quasi-stateless fixer families in relation to the
feudal lords. Fussy and indirect seems somehow
very close to the right picture of the stateless
ones navigating always through the cracks and
seams, compared to the blunt moves of the ones who
had states.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have some discomfort that this
doesn’t quite map. Yet it seems not fully
dissimilar.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Eric</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM,
Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"
class="">
SFI sponsorship seems like very much a
fideistic declaration. It would be
interesting to see how that influence
network feeds into a D.C. influencer
network and real money. There are
some linkages, like Brookings, but
leverage-wise it all seems much softer
than with LANL and the DOE. And it
all seems so fussy and indirect
compared to slapping down a few
billion dollars to build a Starship.
That's the appeal of Musk: I'm f'ing
doing this. </div>
<hr
style="display:inline-block;width:98%"
class="">
<div
id="m_-1119016457442818218x_divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr" class=""><font
style="font-size:11pt" class=""
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b
class="">From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
on behalf of glen <<a
href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">gepropella@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday,
January 24, 2022 5:08 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>
<<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">friam@redfish.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM]
health care logistics</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class=""><font class="" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="">
<div class="">Well, that ain't
true, either. Like Epstein, when
you "invest" in the SFI or
people like Steven Pinker or
Bill Clinton, you're simply
transferring from one store to
another ... buying influence.
If, e.g., the CIA contracts with
the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling
tool into a broad spectrum
simulation tool, they are not
only buying a (questionable)
piece of software; they're
buying *leverage* over people's
salaries, loyalty, etc. So those
VCs *will* see that money again,
perhaps much less of it,
depending on the efficiency of
the transaction, or in fringe
storage types (able to get past
the receptionist after eating
over-priced peri-Mexican food in
order to have tea with smart
people).<br class="">
<br class="">
On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br class="">
> Some of them sponsor SFI
for goodness' sake! They'll
never see THAT money again!<br
class="">
-- <br class="">
glen<br class="">
Theorem 3. There exists a double
master function.<br class="">
<br class="">
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FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,046Ie912d3LTT0lQsngw4KapmHP1nlPjt5hWM1thrZnqxXadLJR2xVWTcZNmos_PnX5Cipf_jdTuAv8mqGhEKrV8VdnAr9xl-V_XrFoIRM9wCLU,&typo=1"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,046Ie912d3LTT0lQsngw4KapmHP1nlPjt5hWM1thrZnqxXadLJR2xVWTcZNmos_PnX5Cipf_jdTuAv8mqGhEKrV8VdnAr9xl-V_XrFoIRM9wCLU,&typo=1</a><br
class="">
archives:<br class="">
5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,JT6pJJMUUowZY5oE5ogHV5DP_w2rep9RCp6Ov3LmMuRPjDdU9KqDhtkDvo_Gt-H3WMeV-FrqN-HkYc7V7xrIH02lqBjNlBNhqKYq2BdZJA,,&typo=1"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,JT6pJJMUUowZY5oE5ogHV5DP_w2rep9RCp6Ov3LmMuRPjDdU9KqDhtkDvo_Gt-H3WMeV-FrqN-HkYc7V7xrIH02lqBjNlBNhqKYq2BdZJA,,&typo=1</a><br
class="">
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br
class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
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