<div dir="ltr">Hi Frank:<div><br></div><div>We need any, but hopefully renewable energy, to generate power for the compressors. This also creates heat which we can recycle for more electricity or use for industrial purposes. Our efficiency isn't high, but once we are in the pipelines we have a huge battery. 60 miles, 36 inch diameter can hold 240MWh. We can be instant inertia energy or generate. Our storage costs are about $50/kwh. Batteries are $400/kwh for example. Also, we can store compressed air for months upon months. Also, if we can build the renewables close enough to the plant we can go DC/DC which is a 25% energy savings not having to convert to AC. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:05 AM Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">How do you compress the air? Any method I can think of uses energy. From what source?<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank<br><br><div dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 10:57 AM Michael Orshan <<a href="mailto:morshan@gmail.com" target="_blank">morshan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi. I'm a reader more than a contributor, but the Hydrogen discussion is close to my day to day. <div><br></div><div>Many of us in renewables think Hydrogen might mostly be kick the can as Steve mentioned. It is something that might be economically feasible in the 2030s and so the length of time oil companies sell oil increases. Having said that, there are a number of very pricey Hydrogen projects getting funded. That might be showing how profitable the O&G industry is. <div><br></div><div>I'm working with a company we call <a href="http://www.breezesqueeze.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Breeze</a>. It uses compressed air in pipelines to move turbines at power plants. Without fossil fuels or using water this is getting a lot of attention. There are many advantages such as cold air where compressed air is released that can be used by data centers. 25% of all GHGs come from generating electricity. 45% of all water used in the US is used to create electricity. </div><div><br></div><div>We see this as a better option than Hydrogen. We do think Hydrogen fuel cells are a solution for mobile applications. </div><div><br></div><div>Mike Orshan</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:27 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 2/6/22 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<a href="https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><i> </i><i><span style="color:rgb(33,37,41);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Low-cost fossil fuel resources are
finite. Someday it will simply not be possible to burn oil,
natural gas, and coal for the affordable heat, electricity,
and motive power humans need to power their prosperous
societies.<span> </span></span></i><br>
<i><span style="color:rgb(33,37,41);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span></span></span></i><i>
</i><br>
</blockquote>
<p>Must we always begin with the assumption that growth in terms of
geographical/geometric, material and energy
consumption/appropriation are requisite to continuing/growing a
"prosperous society"? Tangentially (or not), if "green" hydrogen
implies a 2:1 ratio of CO2 production to H2 but often begins with
fossil fuels, it is obviously yet another "kick the can down the
road" solution. Harvesting solar and direct-solar/lunar-derived
energy (including wind, tidal) and channeling it through our
living (including technological infrastructure and agri-industry)
systems to yield high-entropy "waste heat" seems to be orders of
magnitude more sustainable (if still questionable on some very
long time-scale limited by a Dyson-Sphere-like-limit). If the
H2 is created by cracking H20 (and capturing both to be recombined
later to release energy) using solar (and other renewables) energy
it is a *closed cycle*. One would presume the total amount of H2
we would have stored/<br>
</p>
<p>From ecology there comes the observed phenomena of "island
syndrome" which can include island dwarfism and poikilothermy
which are both driven by reducing the demand on finite resources
without giving up function or complexity. <br>
</p>
<p>From Alexander Payne comes the absurdist SciFi flick <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)#Plot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Downsizing</a>
which postulates by shrinking humans by ???-fold (5 inches tall ~=
12:1 in 1 dimension, 144:1 in cross section and 1728:1 in
volume/mass... ) the movie implies no change in metabolic rates
which would nominally speed up with "shrinkage", yielding (also)
shorter lifespans. Oh well.. Fiction. But the point would seem
well taken... Gaia would get a 2000:1 reprieve from our *current*
energy/mass burden on her systems. <br>
</p>
<p>I'm not promoting shrinking people as-such, just noting that our
0th order instinct is growth, and supralinear if at all possible,
up to and likely achieving Kurzweillian asymptotic resource
consumption.<br>
</p>
<p>On that note, I believe that the myriad technological singularity
concepts all point toward increased complexity and downscaling to
extend the use of material and energy, driving up the effective
collective metabolism of "the system" and paradoxically
*increasing* the rate at which we approach any of the jillion
ecophagic <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">gray-goo</a>-like
scenarios neo-luddites like me might contrive.<br>
</p>
<p>I assume (but have not yet poked around for) that Alifers have
already studied the multi-scale *structure* of negative entropy
profiles in complex systems-of-systems. I think Glen has his ear
closer to that rail than some here? EricS? ??? I'm still
fascinated in the topic but gave up my little-toenail-purchase in
the community in the early 2000s - <a href="https://cseweb.ucsd.edu//~rik/alife6/papers/SY51.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Symbiotic
Intelligence ALifeVI</a>. This reads so naive yet (mildly)
prophetic now...</p>
<p>All is lost! Flee the solar system!<br>
</p>
<blockquote><i>
</i></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:20 PM,
<a href="mailto:thompnickson2@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">thompnickson2@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p>Grey hydrogen?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><a href="https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/</a>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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