<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>A few years ago Glen busted me for invoking the "enlightened
self-interest" trope. I think it still holds in spite of his
not-wrong point about "self is an illusion". I think that the
refugee crisis expansion with Ukraine as the latest wave either
helps us understand how important Marcus' points are and/or
confronts the stories I'm already hearing about the Ukrainian
refugees "displacing" others from less "European" sources. <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/2/22 2:01 PM, Roger Critchlow
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGayqovmov3tEZA-3zM97w70ydhKdKDWRTvoMek6_4KZM7UBQg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Mrcus --
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry, that comment was directed to the thread as a whole
after reading through it in a doctors waiting room. The quip
was shared in haste as my turn was called because it was too
good to let pass. It didn't mean to apply to your comment
directly. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- rec --</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 2:29 PM
Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US">
<div class="gmail-m_5119451506749987501WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Let me put it another way. Even if
one takes the view that the only goal in life is to be
better off than the other guy, it is important to
recognize the consequences of things and factor that
into a plan. Because if one doesn’t, then being better
off than the other guy may not be sustainable. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of
</b>Roger Critchlow<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022 11:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] war footing</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Which part of 'not being able to do
things for the "right" reasons' do you not comprehend?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">--rec --</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 2, 2022, 1:06 PM
Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyone that has worked for a
large company has probably experienced regular
teleconferences with colleagues in different
countries.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It soon becomes clear that
there is an unbelievable variance in salaries.
Yes, some of it just adjusts for cost of
living. U.S. leads the world, except perhaps
for Switzerland. Then there are countries
like India which have a massive workforce but
get paid next to nothing. On one hand
globalization leads to exploitation of
vulnerable populations, but on the other hand it
leads to raised expectations over time. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My point is that a UBI (or
reparations) in the U.S. would reduce conflict
within this country, but it won’t address the
potential international productivity crisis that
is coming. If the U.S. doesn’t support raising
the standard of living for people throughout the
world, at some point we will suffer for it
because we are too expensive. (And really
everyone is at risk from automation sooner or
later.) Our privilege shouldn’t be jealously
guarded, as the nativists argue, it should be
shared to lower the potential violence that
could occur if we are seen as a bad guy like
Putin. Trump was just a dumb and incompetent
version of Putin.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gillian Densmore<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022 9:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] war footing</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For cars Hydrogen,
compressed air, mixed with electric. On
paper (or plugged into a wall) is pretty
cool as an idea...if we can, ya know, guild
recharge stations similarly to how we build
gas stations.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pardon the interruption
though. But it's all fine and good to be
perplexed, or triggered or what ever by
Russia and the (former) eastern block. Going
postal....</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any plans to put the same
energy into fixing super hard problems at
home? I hear that a lot of people are one
paycheck from being homeless. and no one's
going out to lobby the
&&&&&&&& out
of a Weekly allowance aka UBI.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at
10:32 AM Marcus Daniels <<a
href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One option is mixing
hydrogen with natural gas to reduce how
much needs to be imported. IMO there’s
nothing that motivates progress in
technology than having a working
production system that can be made
incrementally better (e.g. the 20 TB
hard drives one can buy these days). A
production ITER type system is still a
long way off. Note that Germany has
its own Stellarator platform that
perhaps they could accelerate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.offshore-energy.biz/germany-to-break-free-from-russian-gas-with-two-lng-terminals/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.offshore-energy.biz/germany-to-break-free-from-russian-gas-with-two-lng-terminals/</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.engie.com/en/businesses/gas/hydrogen/power-to-gas/the-grhyd-demonstration-project"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.engie.com/en/businesses/gas/hydrogen/power-to-gas/the-grhyd-demonstration-project</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.ipp.mpg.de/5125328/05_21?c=14226"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.ipp.mpg.de/5125328/05_21?c=14226</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, time to abandon
that gas station.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in
0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam
<<a
href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Critchlow<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022
9:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity Coffee Group <<a
href="mailto:Friam@redfish.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [FRIAM] war footing</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm thinking that a
way to escalate our response to Putin,
without actually fighting him, is to
build a "green war machine". Start a
crash project to research, develop,
and deliver the technology to liberate
our european allies from their energy
dependencies on russian oil and gas.
And everyone else as a side effect.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That this is all
stuff that we *cough* should be
doing anyway is bonus content. But
what we can't seem to do for the
"right" reasons might be easily done
as a way to thwart an enemy who is
so successfully making himself the
most reviled man of our age.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Longer term, the
economic effects of the sanctions,
the social effects of the ukrainian
refugee crisis, and the
demoralization of watching brute
force in action are going to hurt
our side a lot. That may be Putin's
actual endgame for the "operation"
while he pretends to be Trump.
Better to be doing something
positive than to be waiting around
to see how it turns out.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- rec --</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. /
-.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives:<br>
5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. ---
-. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a
href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives:<br>
5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .---
..- --. .- - .<br>
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br>
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a
href="http://bit.ly/virtualfriam" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br>
un/subscribe <a
href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br>
FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br>
archives:<br>
5/2017 thru present <a
href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a
href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a>
FRIAM-COMIC <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a>
archives:
5/2017 thru present <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a>
1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>