<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px">Maybe both?</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px">This is an active area of climate science research because there are both positive and negative feedback loops from an increase in water vapor and cloud formation, and the actual balance is very complex. </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><a href="https://cgcs.mit.edu/research/convection-atmospheric-water-vapor-and-cloud-formation">https://cgcs.mit.edu/research/convection-atmospheric-water-vapor-and-cloud-formation</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 7:14 AM Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" target="_blank">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">According to Seibert and Rees a small population is the only solution, right?<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Merle, does water vapor in the stratosphere cause cooling, like an umbrella, or warming, like a blanket?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Frank<br><br><div dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 10:38 PM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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The current situation suggests a solution to global warming: A nuclear winter with a small residual population.
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<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 10, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Carl Tollander <<a href="mailto:carl@plektyx.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">carl@plektyx.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Not to be too much of a hydrogen fanboi here, but it looks like we would for many generation cases still be ahead compared to where we are with fossil.
<div><a href="http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/i6W09tDtK-48PTmzHazOuw/3.2.3.Jacobson_Golden_07.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/i6W09tDtK-48PTmzHazOuw/3.2.3.Jacobson_Golden_07.pdf</a><br>
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<div>My impression is that the transport and leakage issue is one that the UH folks are trying to address. Now if they could achieve that in a vacuum....</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 9:52 PM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Back to growing fungus, I guess.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Merle Lefkoff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 10, 2022 8:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">friam@redfish.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory -- ABQ Journal<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Oh, please, Frank! I guess I need to show you a bit more about why this is a bad idea. (Or maybe you're pulling my leg.). See below from my "bad climate mitigation notes" file and be better
informed. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">First, the color code. "Green" hydrogen, produced by electrolysis is expensive, so it's produced by steam reforming--cheaper, but it uses natural gas as a feedstock and produces "grey" hydrogen
which contributes nothing to climate change mitigation. But "grey" can become "blue" hydrogen when the CO2 is captured by carbon storage techniques that are very doubtful on many levels. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Also darn, atmospheric hydrogen sequesters hydroxyl radicals responsible for the removal of methane. Uh-oh! There is even more interference when hydrogen combines with oxygen in the stratosphere
to form water vapor, which also contributes to climate change. Finally, the entire process of hydrogen production, transport, distribution, storage and use is affected by common leaks that release gas into the atmosphere. This is one of the biggest problems
among many, and it also seems to be under-reported and not well understood by people looking for easy answers. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Like you, dear Frank.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:BentonSansBBVA-Bold,serif;color:rgb(33,37,41);font-weight:normal"><a href="https://twitter.com/yanes68" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,68,129);background-color:rgb(233,233,233);text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:BentonSansBBVA-Book,serif;color:rgb(33,37,41);font-weight:normal"><u></u><u></u></span></h3>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:57 PM Frank Wimberly <<a href="mailto:wimberly3@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">wimberly3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">I am a former pilot. I think this is an excellent idea. Don't confuse hydrogen with hydrogen bombs. Burning hydrogen produces water, not CO2.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">---<br>
Frank C. Wimberly<br>
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>
Santa Fe, NM 87505<br>
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505 670-9918<br>
Santa Fe, NM<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:53 PM Merle Lefkoff <<a href="mailto:merlelefkoff@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">merlelefkoff@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I need assurance from somebody--anybody--that this is an incredibly bad idea from a governor who drank some fatally spiked Kool-Aid.</span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<h1 style="margin-top:0in"><span style="font-family:"PT Serif",serif">International firm to invest $254M in ABQ hydrogen factory</span><u></u><u></u></h1>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-color:white"><span style="font-family:"PT Serif",serif;color:rgb(33,37,41)">“This project puts New Mexico and Universal Hydrogen at the center of the global effort to decarbonize transportation and aviation in particular,” Lujan
Grisham said in a statement. “Hydrogen, solar, wind and alternative energy are job-rich industries and New Mexico’s partnerships with these companies are part of a forward-thinking model to create a robust and diversified economy, while being a part of the
solution when it comes to a changing climate.”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<h1 style="margin-top:0in"><span style="font-family:"PT Serif",serif;text-transform:uppercase">BY <a href="https://www.abqjournal.com/author/krobinson-avila" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,153,189)">KEVIN ROBINSON-AVILA / JOURNAL STAFF WRITER</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></h1>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"PT Serif",serif">PUBLISHED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:47PM<br>
UPDATED: THURSDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2022 AT 2:52PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"PT Serif",serif"><a href="https://www.abqjournal.com/2478078/international-firm-to-invest-254m-in-abq-hydrogen-factory.html?utm_source=single-post-notification&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=International%20firm%20to%20invest%20$254M%20in%20ABQ%20hydrogen%20factory&utm_edition=202203102152" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:black"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-color:white"><span style="font-family:"PT Serif",serif;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Universal Hydrogen — an international company with modular hydrogen storage technology for planes, ground transportation and heavy manufacturing — will
invest $254 million in a new manufacturing and distribution center at the Albuquerque International Sunport, potentially employing up to 500 people, Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham announced Thursday afternoon.The state will contribute $10 million in Local Economic
Development Act funding for the project, which could have a $700 million economic impact here over the next 10 years, according to the Governor’s Office, which held a news conference Thursday at Hotel Albuquerque in Old Town to announce the project.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.<br>Center for Emergent Diplomacy<br><a href="http://emergentdiplomacy.org" target="_blank">emergentdiplomacy.org</a></div><div>Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA</div><div></div><div><br>mobile: (303) 859-5609<br>skype: merle.lelfkoff2<br></div><div>twitter: @merle110<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>