<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Aha!<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Quantum attention.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Everything has limits, and attention is the realized heuristic and function abstraction that enables performance when there is always more to do than you can do.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Quantum computers must eventually encounter similar needs, if one gives them enough-too-much to do.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But now they can “attend” in superposition.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What is it like to be a quantum computer attending? Even more different than what is it like to be a bat.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Eric</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 14, 2022, at 4:09 AM, Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com" class="">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">To bend threads a little, suppose we have 10,000 Tesla-like cars in full self-driving mode in some part of a city. They coordinate an optimization model that maximizes throughput between different destinations by choosing routes that
don’t interfere. That isn’t a sort of culture?<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">As for attention, I don’t have enough of it to follow the innovations:
<span class="c-bibliographic-informationvalue"><a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.16775.pdf" class="">https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.16775.pdf</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b> Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> <b class="">On Behalf Of
</b>Prof David West<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 13, 2022 11:56 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" class="">friam@redfish.com</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive heuristics<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">Glen asked: <i class="">
"Do we have self-attending machines that can change what parts of self they're attending? Change from soft to hard? Allow for self-attending the part that's self-attending (and up and around in a loopy way)? To what extent can we make them modal, swapping from
learning mode to perform mode?" </i><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">I'll not attempt a direct response, yet; but I am certain I will have one in a few days. I am in the middle of digesting:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">The Master and his Emissary<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">The Matter With Things, vol I: The Ways to Truth<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">The Matter With Things. vol II: What Then Is True<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">All by Iain McGilchrist<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">(total pages a little over 1500)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">Attending is a key concept.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">All center on the bicameral mind, how the two sides work cooperatively and constantly, but how they offer different perspectives and different means of attending.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">A key thesis is that the "rationale" left-brain has assumed dominance and distorts our view of the world and of ourselves.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">I have long contended (since my Ph. D. thesis in 1988) that AIs will never equal human intelligence because they cannot and do not participate in "culture." From McGilchrist, I will be amending
/ extending that argument to include, <i class="">"<b class="">because they lack a right brain."</b></i><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">davew<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, at 8:36 AM, glen wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> But we don't "create the neural structure over and over", at least we <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> don't create the *same* neural structure over and over. One way in <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> which big-data-trained self-attending ANN structures now mimic meat <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> intelligence is in that very intense training period. Development (from <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> zygote to (dysfunctional) adult) is the training. Adulting is the <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> testing/execution. But these transformer based mechanisms don't seem, <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> in my ignorance, to be as flexible as those grown in meat. Do we have <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> self-attending machines that can change what parts of self they're <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> attending? Change from soft to hard? Allow for self-attending the part <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> that's self-attending (and up and around in a loopy way)? To what <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> extent can we make them modal, swapping from learning mode to perform <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> mode? As SteveS points out, can machine intelligence "play" or <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> "practice" in the sense normal animals like us do? Are our modes even <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> modes? Or is all performance a type of play? To what extent can we make <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> them "social", collecting/integrating multiple transformer-based ANNs <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> so as to form a materially open problem solving collective?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> Anyway, it seems to me the neural structure is *not* an encoding of a <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> means to do things. It's a *complement* to the state(s) of the world in <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> which the neural structure grew. Co-evolutionary processes seem <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> different from encoding. Adversaries don't encode models of their <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> opponents so much as they mold their selves to smear into, fit with, <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> innervate, anastomose [</span><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif" class="">⛧</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">], their adversaries. This is what makes 2 <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> party games similar to team games and distinguishes "play" (infinite or <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> meta-games) from "gaming" (finite, or well-bounded payoff games).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> Again, I'm not suggesting machine intelligence can't do any of this; or <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> even that they aren't doing it to some small extent now. I'm only <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> suggesting they'll have to do *more* of it in order to be as capable as <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> meat intelligence.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> [</span><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif" class="">⛧</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">] I like "anastomotic" for adversarial systems as opposed to <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> "innervated" for co-evolution because anastomotic tissue seems (to me) <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> to result from a kind of high pressure, biomechanical stress. Perhaps <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> an analogy of soft martial arts styles to innervate and hard styles to <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> anastomose?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> On 4/12/22 20:43, Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> Today, humans go to some length to record history, to preserve companies and their assets. But for some reason preserving the means to do things -- the essence of a mind -- this has this
different status. Why not seek to inherit minds too? Sure, I can see the same knowledge base can be represented in different ways. But, studying those neural representations could also be informative. What if neural structures have similar topological
properties given some curriculum? What a waste to create that neural structure over and over..<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> -----Original Message-----<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> From: Friam <<a href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com" class="">friam-bounces@redfish.com</a>> On Behalf Of Steve Smith<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 7:22 PM<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> To: <a href="mailto:friam@redfish.com" class="">friam@redfish.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive heuristics<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> On 4/12/22 5:53 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>> I am not saying such a system would not need to be predatory or parasitic, just that it can be arranged to preserve the contents of a library.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> And I can't help knee-jerking that when a cell attempts to live forever (and/or replicate itself perfectly) that it becomes a tumour in the<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> organ(ism) that gave rise to it, and even metastasizes, spreading it's hubris to other organs/systems.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> Somehow, I think the inter-planetary post-human singularians are more like metastatic cells than "the future of humanity". Maybe that is NOT a dead-end, but my mortality-chauvanistic "self"
rebels. Maybe if I live long enough I'll come around... or maybe there will be a CAS mediated edit to fix that pessimism in me.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>>> On Apr 12, 2022, at 4:29 PM, glen <<a href="mailto:gepropella@gmail.com" class="">gepropella@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>>><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>>> </span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif" class=""></span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">Dude. Every time I think we could stop, you say something I object to. >8^D You're
doing it on purpose. I'm sure of it ... like pulling the wings off flies and cackling like a madman.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>>><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>>> No, the maintenance protocol must be *part of* the meat-like intelligence. That's why I mention things like suicide or starving yourself because your wife stops feeding you. To me, a forever-autopoietic
system seems like a perpetual motion machine ... there's something being taken for granted by the conception ... some unlimited free energy or somesuch.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">>>>><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> -- <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,QLRPgFBlFBwZJc7WD7iFFW8QgyIidPaHxoaMZ2yHu1WSC8ICZuyXw2glGC1fV5IAZDDS74pGgZZ2AUC_PJL7Gujs5nrzEryDGmtpKKVAZqWaAPsC2rIhYf8,&typo=1" class="">bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<br class="">.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .<br class="">FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br class="">Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,cioCqT-azZvsTzRdY29W9ePRIlpogVzQekuMYNgp8wgNWYrIF7tdAy4udQuLdh1MfCb_9qFO2Bbvx8gmpEw1WphdvY9_mtnjUyBwLylo&typo=1" class="">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,cioCqT-azZvsTzRdY29W9ePRIlpogVzQekuMYNgp8wgNWYrIF7tdAy4udQuLdh1MfCb_9qFO2Bbvx8gmpEw1WphdvY9_mtnjUyBwLylo&typo=1</a><br class="">un/subscribe <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_Na_IezBqAiXXcLorxsJO9gX5rjogQS4Lgh93UcgCSPFMf1PY8Q-wi3bnl0b3V25AsFJTSdwKsB_S9SqiYOT2D7_4SWpKZvAjTfhhBR3FfNx&typo=1" class="">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_Na_IezBqAiXXcLorxsJO9gX5rjogQS4Lgh93UcgCSPFMf1PY8Q-wi3bnl0b3V25AsFJTSdwKsB_S9SqiYOT2D7_4SWpKZvAjTfhhBR3FfNx&typo=1</a><br class="">FRIAM-COMIC <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,gc2RzG68yjJz1rwT-IUUmEYL2KEHTXqQpf2sCufUV5VFWTCvCXlpKJ8qZLqCxJ5V5IATJrC_4cp5VbFSus0Hnv23HjjDD8UXSzS4S8HWBga82P9gVXZmS66t5Tk,&typo=1" class="">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,gc2RzG68yjJz1rwT-IUUmEYL2KEHTXqQpf2sCufUV5VFWTCvCXlpKJ8qZLqCxJ5V5IATJrC_4cp5VbFSus0Hnv23HjjDD8UXSzS4S8HWBga82P9gVXZmS66t5Tk,&typo=1</a><br class="">archives:<br class=""> 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,_gO2leuY_bDgjkBg6LkGawFeECNeZDi38pWcSrwNLfLXMJCQE4PYDUEzGCzlgl1Xjr4gNvO7VGqlGgh-fQQa0AuFeBVAqFZwMrWElYD9Z3MGdVrjFfxg3oZE&typo=1" class="">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,_gO2leuY_bDgjkBg6LkGawFeECNeZDi38pWcSrwNLfLXMJCQE4PYDUEzGCzlgl1Xjr4gNvO7VGqlGgh-fQQa0AuFeBVAqFZwMrWElYD9Z3MGdVrjFfxg3oZE&typo=1</a><br class=""> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/" class="">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>