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<p>I'm waiting for this discussion to come full circle to an
ideation of what kinds of road-rage modes self-driving cars might
have built in (or develop)? Or coping modes when (using Marcus'
example) someone else practicing road-rage gets in it's awareness
envelope. I can just see a self-driving car deftly (but
controlled) jousting with an angry driver brandishing a tire-iron
in the middle of the street.<br>
</p>
<p>I have this image of a high-security abandoned town taken over by
the major players in self-driving systems development where David
Carradine types from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race_2000">Death-Race
2000</a> psychopath their way through everyday driving contexts
to help fill out the edge and corner cases that "normal" driving
contexts would never explore. Or maybe an alternative
application of WestWorld technology.<br>
</p>
<p>Maybe this is what gaming environments like Grand Theft Auto are
really all about, an adversarial testbed for training self-driving
automobiles in these extremes? <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/28/22 3:43 PM, glen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:64449f49-49d3-9be0-e156-48adb348b965@gmail.com">Well, I
purposefully chose to use sociopathy in this example to indicate
the complete competency spectrum. A flood-prone sociopath *needs*
to get good at suppressing their freak-outs. A psychopath doesn't
need to suppress anything. There's no such thing as an ideal
psychopath, of course. We're all a little psycho to some extent.
<br>
<br>
But if you're asserting there's a difference between freak-out
behavior and a freaked-out mental state, then we might expect the
monists to come flying out of the woodwork with their loops on
repeat. It's a social skill, a competence, to be able to *whip*
oneself up into a state of enthusiasm ... or even a state of Flow.
When you enter the MMA ring, you don't calm yourself, meditate,
and relax. You whip yourself into a [controlled] freak-out.
Explosive athletics require freaked-out mentality *and* often
quite a bit of bit of freak-out behavior.
<br>
<br>
This conception of flooding and freaking out as some sort of
over-the-threshhold loss of control is idealistic nonsense. That's
the heart of my claim that freak-outs aren't the problem.
<br>
<br>
On 4/28/22 14:32, Marcus Daniels wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Sure, it depends whether we define a
state-of-mind as the freak out, or the observed behavior of the
freak out. The former could happen, and no one would know.
And I think you are confusing sociopathy with psychopathy in
this example.
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Friam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of glen
<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 2:24 PM
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant
<br>
<br>
But by keeping it together, you *weaken* your plausible
deniability. Keeping it together would give the prosecutor the
ammunition to accuse you of [pre]mediated murder (with [pre] in
brackets because it's not technically pre-mediated murder). The
more cold-blooded you are, the more likely we'll interpret your
killing as cold-blooded murder.
<br>
<br>
So a competent sociopath gets good at *simulating* freak-outs.
Again, the freak-out isn't the problem, here. Freaking out is a
tool just like any other. And it's rational and intelligent to
use the tool deliberately.
<br>
<br>
On 4/28/22 14:17, Marcus Daniels wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Just to clarify, I wouldn't shoot the
guy because I was emotional. He was the one that experienced
the freak out. In some potential circumstance, I would
potentially do it for protection of my passenger, and to a
lesser extent as a sort of public service, because the
opportunity was given to me in the context of (plausible)
self-defense. The subtler reason that excuse would be
appealing would be due to the basic injustice that I was
basically keeping it together and he was not, and keeping it
together is work. So why should I take on the burden for
adapting to lazy people? Just because I can? If we go
around making special accommodations for people that don't try
to keep it together, one can expect a lot more of it.
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Friam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of
glen
<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 1:49 PM
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.com">friam@redfish.com</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant
<br>
<br>
Well, OK. So we can partition freak-outs into (at least) 2
types: angry vs joyous ... or whatever other false binary you
choose (pro- vs anti-social perhaps). Then we argue for
suppression of one but not suppression of the other? Pffft.
That doesn't work. E.g. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://youtu.be/etK7e7iBJVQ">https://youtu.be/etK7e7iBJVQ</a> You'd
just end up living in a world of dead-eyed automatons.
<br>
<br>
What you seem to be targeting, here, is *material* cause.
Those of us who tend to flood more than others need less
access to powerful tools like cars and guns. Again, it's not
the freak-out that's the problem. It's the network in which
the freak-out exists.
<br>
<br>
On 4/28/22 13:40, Marcus Daniels wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">It's not about the manners, it's about
learning to distance from discomfort. Like continuing to
press a climb up a hill on a bicycle while the lactic acid
burns your legs.
<br>
<br>
Spend some time around someone with borderline personality
disorder for a while, you will change your mind.
<br>
<br>
Road rage is a common example. The other day there was a
bicycle that I was approaching who wasn't going very fast,
even for a bicyclist. She did have every right to be there,
and so I was also going slow to wait for her to get around a
parked car before I passed. Meanwhile, some lunatic comes
up behind us laying on his horn, oscillating from the left
side of the lane to the right trying to find a way around.
Because he went so far right, there was no way he couldn't
see the bicyclist. I don't have a lot of patience for this
kind of behavior, so I indicated my displeasure with a
middle finger. This individual then roars in front of us
both and puts his car horizontally in front of mine. He
gets out and starts banging on my window to get his
"catharsis". Had I determined he was an actual threat to
us, I might have pushed his car out the way with mine (which
was much larger), or had I a weapon, shot him. F*ck his
catharsis, he can share the minor frustration of daily life
with the rest of us, and in silence please. There is no
benefit in his freak out, it was basically a criminal act as
far as I was concerned.
<br>
<br>
There are situations which a rant is truly righteous, but I
have found mostly no one cares about that. Usually this
discovery comes at some personal or professional cost.
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Friam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:friam-bounces@redfish.com"><friam-bounces@redfish.com></a> On Behalf Of
glen
<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 1:20 PM
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:friam@redfish.co">friam@redfish.co</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant
<br>
<br>
"This is your last free article." [baaaaahhhhhhhh] Now what
am I
<br>
gonna read this weekend!?!? Damn you! [stomp][stomp][stomp]
<br>
<br>
Of course, I disagree completely with the point being made,
there. The freak-out improves relationships and rationality,
smooths over difficulties in the real world, and has all
sorts of narrative-breaking, cathartic benefits. In the same
way that convictions to ideologies foster conservatism and
hamper progress, the suppression of one's freak-outs amounts
to rejecting a large array of measures and indicators one
might ordinarily use to understand the world. The problem
isn't the freak-out. The problem is a lack of tolerance
*for* freak-outs. It's the repressed Victorians running
around complaining about the lack of manners and decorum
around them.
<br>
<br>
Please. Don't repress your freak-outs. We're tough. We can
withstand your freak-out and use it to better plan for the
future. The last thing we need is to turn into a bunch of
dead-affect emotionless, freak-out-free psychopaths. Where
would stand-up comedy be without freak-outs? Where would we
get our qualia-laden *rants* from? What even is laughing if
*not* a kind of freak-out?
<br>
<br>
I haven't had the giggles in decades. But for some reason, a
group of us were eating lunch a few weeks ago. Someone told
a joke. Another someone kept laughing. I mean, even after
the topic had changed and everyone'd moved on. This dude
kept laughing. I tried to take a sip of beer and I ended up
snorting it ... just because that other dude kept laughing.
I'm allergic to barley. So when I snort beer it seriously
messes me up for about an hour or 2. Fvcking laughing.
Stupid freak-out. I should have suppressed it.
<br>
<br>
On 4/28/22 12:53, Marcus Daniels wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">“Emotional flooding might have
helped your Pleistocene ancestors survive, but it is
maladapted to most modern interactions.”
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/how-to-manage-emo">https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/how-to-manage-emo</a>
<br>
t
<br>
ions-and-reactions/629692/
<br>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/how-to-manage-em">https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/how-to-manage-em</a>
<br>
o
<br>
tions-and-reactions/629692/>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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