<div dir="auto">Steve,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Spinoza has ancestors in common with Spanish (and New Mexican) people named Espinoza or Espinosa. Will Durant said he had the clearest knowledge of God of any philosopher. I suppose that was knowledge of the third kind.<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>Frank C. Wimberly<br>140 Calle Ojo Feliz, <br>Santa Fe, NM 87505<br><br>505 670-9918<br>Santa Fe, NM</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jun 11, 2022, 5:53 AM Steve Smith <<a href="mailto:sasmyth@swcp.com">sasmyth@swcp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p>As long as I am scattergunning this list with the rock-salt of my
random studies, I have to toss Spinoza over the transom as well.</p>
<p>Being too lazy (manically preoccupied) to thread my way back
through the existing discussions on duality on this list, I will
simply ask if anyone here has already thrown down on Spinoza's
take on duality here, or even better, is willing to now:<br>
</p>
<p>From Spinoza's <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_(Spinoza_book)#Part_II:_Of_the_Nature_&_Origin_of_the_Mind" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Ethics</a>:
<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline!important;float:none">Further,
there is no difference between contemplating an idea and
thinking that it is true, and there is no<span> </span></span></i><i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will" title="Free
will" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:rgb(255,255,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">freedom
of the will</a></i><i><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline!important;float:none"><span> </span>at all. Sensory
perception, which Spinoza calls "knowledge of the first
kind", is entirely inaccurate, since it reflects how our own
bodies work more than how things really are. We can also
have a kind of accurate knowledge called "knowledge of the
second kind", or "reason". This encompasses knowledge of the
features common to all things, and includes principles of
physics and geometry. We can also have "knowledge of the
third kind", or "</span></i><i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuition" title="Intuition" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:rgb(255,255,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">intuitive
knowledge</a></i><i><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline!important;float:none">". This is a sort of knowledge
that, somehow, relates particular things to the nature of
God.</span></i></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline!important;float:none">In Spinoza's taxonomy, it would seem
that DaveW's "dark-matter/energy" attribution is what Spinoza
calls "knowledge of the third kind".<br>
</span><i><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline!important;float:none"></span></i></p>
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