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p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Arial;">closest technological metaphor I have encountered is holographic universe and mind as holographic 'interpreter/reader', which could be computationally simulated, I suppose.<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;">davew<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div>On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;"><span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt;">Dave writes:</span></span></span><br></div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;"><span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt;"></span></span></span><br></div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;"><span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt;">< If you assume, or believe, that the mind (body-brain-embodied mind-Atman) naturally processes 100% of the inputs and assume/believe that a survival enhancing mechanism filters that stream to create the illusionary
subset that we call Reality, then entheogens work to dismantle the filtering mechanism and expose the Real Reality. ></span></span></span><br></div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><br></div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;">The mind may be configured to be a 5G transceiver or CAT scan?</span><br></div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;"></span><br></div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="qt-elementToProof"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;">Marcus</span><br></div><div id="qt-appendonsend"><br></div><div><hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%;"><br></div><div id="qt-divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><div><span class="font" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Friam <friam-bounces@redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West <profwest@fastmail.fm><br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2022 6:16 PM<br> <b>To:</b> friam@redfish.com <friam@redfish.com><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [FRIAM] dystopian vision(s)</span></span> </div><div> <br></div></div><div class="qt-BodyFragment"><span class="size" style="font-size:13px;"><span style=""><span class="size" style="font-size:11pt;"><div class="qt-PlainText"><div>If you assume, or believe, that the mind (body-brain-embodied mind-Atman) naturally processes 100% of the inputs and assume/believe that a survival enhancing mechanism filters that stream to create the illusionary subset that we call
Reality, then entheogens work to dismantle the filtering mechanism and expose the Real Reality.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Missing in my first post was a hidden premise, that any augmentations (Neuralink, et. al.) are almost certainly based on whatever we think we understand of the filtering mechanism, not the Mind, and therefore would augment/enhance that mechanism and therefore
lead to results opposite of what is desired.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> The missing premise is pretty much conjecture on my part but is grounded in an advanced, but not expert, understanding of AI and neural network technologies; so it should be taken with a tablespoon (thousands of grains) of salt.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> davew<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, at 11:22 AM, glen wrote:<br></div><div> > Opposite of what? I don't understand how augmentation is the opposite <br></div><div> > of the entheogens (drugs or meditation). Are you saying that, e.g. the <br></div><div> > Mojo Lens or Neuralink further restrict, whereas the entheogens lessen <br></div><div> > the restriction?<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > If so, then my guess is you could do the same sort of restriction <br></div><div> > modulation with any augmentation device. E.g. if there are 1 billion <br></div><div> > possible data feeds you could receive, decreasing them is like an <br></div><div> > undrugged person self-censoring and such, then increasing them is like <br></div><div> > taking a entheogen ... that is, assuming Church-Turing.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > If we reject C-T, then it seems reasonable to argue that the body <br></div><div> > "computes" something that any computer-based augmentation would <br></div><div> > restrict, by definition, making it impossible to expand beyond what the <br></div><div> > augment provides. Computer-based augmentaiton would provide a hard <br></div><div> > limit ... an unavoidable abstraction/subset of reality.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > On 8/15/22 19:04, Prof David West wrote:<br></div><div> >> The hallucino-philia (and Buddhist epistemologists) would argue that our brains (minds) already fully grasp / cognize / perceive our physical reality. But, for survival purposes, it self-censors and presents our consciousness/awareness/attention with a small
abstract subset of that reality—an illusion.<br></div><div> >> <br></div><div> >> Drugs and meditation are 'subtractive' in that they dismantle the abstraction/reduction apparatus that generates the illusion hiding our 'full-grasping'.<br></div><div> >> <br></div><div> >> If such a belief were "true" then "augmenting our brains" would be the exact opposite, and exceedingly harmful, approach ...<br></div><div> >> <br></div><div> >> ... unless, the augmentation was a permanent [lsd | psylocibin | mescaline] drip.<br></div><div> >> <br></div><div> >> * * * * * * * * * * * *<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > -- <br></div><div> > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br></div><div> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <br></div><div> > <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> > to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> > FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> > archives: 5/2017 thru present <br></div><div> > <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div> > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br></div><div> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam"> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div> to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com"> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div> FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div> archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/"> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div></div></span></span></span></div><div>-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .<br></div><div>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv<br></div><div>Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom <a href="https://bit.ly/virtualfriam">https://bit.ly/virtualfriam</a><br></div><div>to (un)subscribe <a href="http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com">http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com</a><br></div><div>FRIAM-COMIC <a href="http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/">http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/</a><br></div><div>archives: 5/2017 thru present <a href="https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/">https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/</a><br></div><div> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 <a href="http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/">http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial;"><br></div></body></html>