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<p>Pandora's cats are out of the bag and nothing will put them
back. I'm not religious but the whole "original sin" thing is a
good allegory for how hard (impossible) it is to go backwards...
even when that would be the very best thing to do (were it
possible). There is no "undo" button... entropy does increase...
time does march forward, and "the only way out is through". I
can't even begin to guess what it would look like for humanity to
collectively evolve (I suppose societally, not
genetically/individually) to the point that we really can put down
obviously dead-end ideations like "Mutual Assured Destruction"
across the board. <br>
</p>
<p>Post Apocalyptic fiction suggests that the only remedy is an
Atlantean-class collapse and "great forgetting" of the shite we
know about being horribly cruel and destructive to one another
(and by extension or vice-versa, the planet/universe?). I *do*
think that there is an "enlightened self-interest* path that is
armatured around an expanding sense of "self" as well as
"interest" AND "enlightenment", but the specifics are an "exercise
for the student (as a collective). I doubt we are going to sort
this in my lifetime and maybe not in my grandchildren's, but that
is no reason *not* to try to understand what that would look like
and seek it.</p>
<p>993,765 steps forward and a similar number back? Progress is
incremental until it isn't. Aphorisms 'R US.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/28/22 7:17 PM, Gillian Densmore
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMaMUCQuE2Zzag=UOpwrpJFFRY-_NJ2r2mB9g3T6iqyZiZg4ig@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">Huh? shame...no just curious.
<div>I was just asking how and why agreeing not use nukes was
agreed on not to go there. In my head I was thinking; huh,
wait a second. Didn't this get adressed several decades ago
for the NPT( Nuclear non prolification Treaty?).
<div>
<div>Is russia and india posturing to agree that nukes are
just bad? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 12:09
AM Marcus Daniels <<a href="mailto:marcus@snoutfarm.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">marcus@snoutfarm.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>How do you propose dissuading countries from building
these weapons? Shaming them on mailing lists?</div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite">On Aug 27, 2022, at 3:25 PM,
Gillian Densmore <<a
href="mailto:gil.densmore@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil.densmore@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><a
href="https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/27/europe/russia-blocks-un-nuclear-disarmament-treaty-intl-hnk/index.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/27/europe/russia-blocks-un-nuclear-disarmament-treaty-intl-hnk/index.html</a><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Am I going loony, I had thought after ultra
conservatives of different interpretation in
communism had tried to murder (1991 coup attempt)
Gorbachev, and his part in draging russin into the
Nuclear Weapons Ban and Test ban treaties that was
that. Though was a we widdle youngling then I do
clearly recall Gorby being all like: Un Embassy has
good and poison free food, the coffees also good.
and then latter: well Russia you'll stop being dicks
about nukes and like it we won't make more are
taking apart what we do have...</div>
<div>so um why is this a thing?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So um cans someone please ELi5 wtf is going on
with a new nuclear ban and disarm. treaty and how
was russia even allowed to cock block it? is Putin
really as insane as to attempt to nuke Ukrain?
(probably). And is this just him being a dick to
pout and posture? Hell do they even anything that
can move those things? they're not exactly light.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sigh. To russia: trolling about a nuclear winter
or at least a MAD scenario just because Zelenskyy
doesn't like being murdered in his sleep KGB style
doesn't make it ok to not decide nukes== f'n
stupid, can still make bombs. just not make a few
Tsar Bombas because the rest of us want to live past
the next few years.<br>
-ME for one</div>
<div><br>
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<div><br>
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